Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #395
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Thu, 9 Dec 93 01:13:25 EST

Linux-Misc Digest #395, Volume #1                 Thu, 9 Dec 93 01:13:25 EST

Contents:
  Re: Why is comp.os.linux still around? (David Barr)
  Re: Yet another benchmark results.. (Ryan B Gran)
  Re: Handbook 486 and Linux (David Wright)
  Re: Yet another benchmark results.. (Heikki Suopanki)
  Re: Yet another benchmark results.. (Carlos Y. Villalpando)
  Re: how fast is linux? (M. Mueller)
  Re: _Real_ hackers ... (Brett L. Huber)
  Re: New Yggdrasil LGX boot floppy (Adam J. Richter)
  Re: Yet another benchmark results.. (Vadim Antonov)
  Re: Miranda 4 Linux (Peter Sestoft)
  X-Free x.x and Diamonond Stealth 24 (Daniel Adelhardt)
  Re: Jana CDs shipped in November? (Anthony Lovell)
  Re: Linux IS well documented. (Per Abrahamsen)
  Re: my pl13q died ): (Rafal Maszkowski)
  [Q] Scanner software ? (Guido Muesch)
  Re: Yet another benchmark results.. (Andy Bolton)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: barr@pop.psu.edu (David Barr)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Why is comp.os.linux still around?
Date: 8 Dec 1993 20:29:40 GMT

In article <1993Dec8.130225@usho42.hou281.chevron.com>,
W.R.Volz <hwrvo@usho42.hou281.chevron.com> wrote:
>You can't make this news group go away, unless there is something about
>the news server that I don't know (which is quite possible).

More than possible.  By your argument there is also a "comp" group, and
a "comp.os" group, and even a "" group.  (Which we know already to be
false)

>All the other C.O.L news groups are rooted in this one.

That has nothing to do with it.

>ALso note that if you look at all the groups you will see that this group
>is still there.

On your server, perhaps.  Not on this one, and not on UUNET.

>I don't think there is anything that prevents anyone
>from posting to *any* of the news groups. It just is that for a newsgroup
>like say, comp, no one posts, but you could.

Well sure, but everyone would throw the article away, and they wouldn't
get very far.

>It won't go away. If you don't want to read it, don't subscribe this
>this group.

And tell everyone that no one else of importance is reading your articles,
since most everyone has left.

comp.os.linux is a bogus group.  It was officially removed almost 1
month ago.  Stop using it.  If it still exists on your news server, send
mail to your news admin.  It should be removed.

Here are the newsgroups you should be carrying (and using) instead:

comp.os.linux.admin     Installing and administering Linux systems.
comp.os.linux.announce  Announcements important to the Linux community. (Moderated)
comp.os.linux.development       Ongoing work on the Linux operating system.
comp.os.linux.help      Questions and advice about Linux.
comp.os.linux.misc      Linux-specific topics not covered by other groups.

--Dave
-- 
lose: v. to miss from one's possession.
loose: adj. not securely fastened.  v. to set free.

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware,comp.os.vms,comp.benchmarks
From: ParadoX@world.std.com (Ryan B Gran)
Subject: Re: Yet another benchmark results..
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 21:28:14 GMT

>>>486DX2-66 EISA/VL 16Mb RAM
>>>running Linux (Slackware 1.1.0).
>>>gcc compiler.
>>>Single user                               27 sec.
>>>
>>>SUN Sparc-2 with >= 16 Mb RAM
>>>running SunOS
>>>Single user                               69 sec.

486DX2-66 EISA/VL 32 MB RAM, 256k Cache (Gateway 2000)
running SCO 3.2v4.2
cc compiler (single user)                       45 sec.
cc compiler (multi user)                        47 sec.
gcc compiler (single & multi use)               44 sec.

SGI - MIPS 4000-100 64 MB RAM
running IRIX Release 4.0.5H
cc compile (multi user)                         11 sec.

The SGI machine belongs to another department, and as such I don't have 
the authority to bring it down to single user mode for testing; nor do
I know all of the technical details about the machine (cache, etc).

Ryan Gran
ParadoX@world.std.com

------------------------------

From: dmw@prism1.prism1.com (David Wright)
Subject: Re: Handbook 486 and Linux
Date: 8 Dec 93 16:03:43 GMT

>>>>> "MAD" == Mark A Davis <mark@taylor.wyvern.com> writes:

  MAD> nieuwhzn@dxgsia.cern.ch (Gerrit Nieuwenhuizen) writes:
  >> SLS installs a lot of things you will never use, for me that is
  >> for instance emacs.

        Personally, I wouldn't dream of giving someone a Unix implementation
that included just about everything they need. I think that SLS/Slackware is
the way to go. If you just give people 1 mail reader, 1 news reader, or even
worse, NONE of something, you will almost certainly anger many people, and
frustrate others.

        I think the Slackware method is ideal. Supply just about EVERYTHING
on the distribution diskettes, but make it VERY easy to pick & choose what to
install during installation. This is what I do to fit Slackware onto a 90mb
hard drive. That's right. I have X, the C compiler, and other stuff installed
on a 90mb HD, of which I have 8mb of swap, with about 10mb free right now.
About the only other thing I would like in this setup is Emacs, but I can't
afford the space right now.

        By putting everything into the distribution you make Linux a MUCH
more acceptable alternative to commercial Unix systems, and open it up to
many more people. I know that *I* wouldn't touch Linux if I had to go to
site A for 1 package, site B for another, compile them for my setup, remove
the source to get space back, etc. With a full distribution I can just grab
the distribution every now and then and keep all the software I use up to
date. And when I install it for someone else it is nice to be able to pick
whatever news reader they like and eliminate the others. If only one were
supplied, you would need to do another step (at least) to copy on the
additional news reader (which you would have to maintain yourself).

  >> Also you should consider installing TinyX instead of all the libs
  >> programs and utilities that SLS dumps on your disk. 130Mb is not
  >> much to run Linux + X from. I have 170Mb in my laptop and am
  >> running into troubles anyhow.

        I have only 90mb, and I have the Slackware X installed. Just be more
selective about which features of it you put on.

  >> You need SLS or something similar to get you started when being
  >> a linux novice. After playing around for some months you better
  >> do upgrades and so on yourself. I am still planning to scrape
  >> all the nonused stuff from my filesystem to free more working 
  >> space.

        Personally, I don't WANT the hassle of having to hunt down the newest
version of everything I use and then copile it all the time. Plus, then my
system would be different from the other peoples I install using the standard
distribution.

  >> I think that I have to agree partially with the people who
  >> say that this system is growing too big. It should be possible
  >> to get a Linux + X system up and running in 40Mb.

        Sure, if all you want is a very limited system. 80mb is certainly
possible right now though, and I wasn't even really trying to get as much
space as I could have.

  MAD> Some of the problems are because of the "development system" arrangement.
  MAD> If one did not need/want that, it would save a lot of space be be rather
  MAD> difficult to build kernals, no?

        Exactly. But someone could get the kernel the way they want and then
trash the "development" related files and gain a bundle of space.

  MAD> I think one of the other Linux distributions has the ability to selectively
  MAD> install just about everything (and remove them to?), kind of like "custom"
  MAD> or "systemadmsh" in SCO and other Unixes.

        Slackware is like this.


  MAD> X can take tons of space if not shaved down- look at all the fonts!!

        That is one of the first things I chopped out when installing X using
Slackware.

                                                        Dave
--
  ____________________________________________________________________________
 |        /\ /          | Prism Computer Applications        |  David Wright  |
 |      -/--\--         | 14650 Detroit Ave, Suite LL40      | dmw@Prism1.COM |
 |      /____\          | Lakewood, OH 44107  USA            |  216-228-1400  |

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware,comp.os.vms,relcom.talk,relcom.fido.su.general
From: suopanki@paju.oulu.fi (Heikki Suopanki)
Subject: Re: Yet another benchmark results..
Reply-To: suopanki@stekt.oulu.fi
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 21:16:30 GMT


Silly benchmak....

SGI Indy R4000, 16M RAM               real 12.40, user 10.66, sys 0.90
SGI Challenge M R4000, 128M RAM       real 11.47, user 10.07, sys 0.39

-Heikki

--
***************************************19********************************
***3************************11******************************21***********
****************9******************************5*************************
***********23*************************************7**********************
                        

------------------------------

From: unbelver@brain.jpl.nasa.gov (Carlos Y. Villalpando)
Subject: Re: Yet another benchmark results..
Date: 8 Dec 1993 21:29:07 GMT


Linux .99pl13.0 486DX2/66 16Meg
time=27
27.150u 0.220s 0:27.66 98.9% 0+0k 0+0io 36pf+0w

Sparc 1+ SunOS 4.1.3 (one user)
time=142
139.9u 2.0s 2:22.66 99.5% 0+2376k 2+0io 4pf+0w

Sparc 2 SunOS 4.1.3
time=64
62.0u 1.1s 1:04.35 98.2% 0+2509k 0+0io 0pf+0w

Sparc 10 1 processor SunOS 4.1.3
time=32
30.2u 0.8s 0:32.66 95.3% 0+2466k 0+0io 0pf+0w

Wow, the 486 beat the Sparc 10.

(all compiled with O4)

--Carlos V
-- 
========================================================================
Carlos Y. Villalpando           | Don't even think I speak for the Gov't
unbelver@brain.jpl.nasa.gov     | I also didn't screw up the Mars Observer
unbelver@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu     | (There was that button I sat on......)

------------------------------

From: mm@lunetix.de (M. Mueller)
Subject: Re: how fast is linux?
Date: 8 Dec 1993 22:28:26 GMT

Michael H Price II (mhp1@Isis.MsState.Edu) wrote:
: I am thinking about upgrading to linux but a friend told me it ran slow.  How
: fast/slow would it run on a 386DX-40 with 8megs RAM?

: Mike.

Hi,

I'm using linux, but I must tell you it's not fast.
It's running on my computer since almost 15 months but it's still next to 
my desk. So a snake might be faster :-)

yours MM

--
=============================================================================
Martin Mueller | Kennen Sie schon das LINUX-Anwender-  | Email: mm@lunetix.de
               | Handbuch ? (finger linux@lunetix.de)  | Tel.: +49 30 6227300
               |    Ab Januar in der Version 3.0!      | Fax : +49 30 6221075
=============================================================================

------------------------------

From: blhuber@mtu.edu (Brett L. Huber)
Subject: Re: _Real_ hackers ...
Date: 8 Dec 1993 23:13:30 GMT

Brandon S. Allbery (bsa@kf8nh.wariat.org) wrote:
> If you're really, *really* good, you use cat.  Both to read *and* to write.
Look, as was said a long time ago, in a newsgroup far, far away,
Real hackers spin the disk with their feet and touch bare wires to it to 
flip the bits.  

Brett Huber

--
... Our continuing mission: To seek out knowledge of C, to explore
strange UNIX commands, and to boldly code where no one has man page 4.



------------------------------

From: adam@adam.yggdrasil.com (Adam J. Richter)
Subject: Re: New Yggdrasil LGX boot floppy
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 22:19:39 GMT

In article <2e4vgm$4g0@news.cerf.net>, XonTech <xontech@nic.cerf.net> wrote:
>
>I downloaded the 3.5in boot floppy image from ftp.netcom.com:
>/pub/yggdrasil/boot-floppies; rawrote it to disk and tried it out.
>The machine hangs after the "LI" of the "LILO boot" prompt.
>What's wrong?

        You probably used a high density floppy instead of a low
density floppy.

-- 
Adam J. Richter                             Yggdrasil Computing, Incorporated
409 Evelyn Ave., Apt. 312, Albany CA 94706  4880 Stevens Creek Blvd., Suite 205
(510) 528-3209                              (408) 261-6630, fax: (408) 261-6631
adam@yggdrsail.com                          info@yggdrasil.som

------------------------------

From: avg@sprintlink.net (Vadim Antonov)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware,comp.os.vms,relcom.talk,relcom.fido.su.general
Subject: Re: Yet another benchmark results..
Date: 8 Dec 1993 22:01:14 GMT

Please keep that thread in appropriate newsgroups.
No need to pollute everything with yet another useless "benchmark".

--vadim

------------------------------

From: sestoft@idcad6.uucp (Peter Sestoft)
Subject: Re: Miranda 4 Linux
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 17:04:33 GMT

spring@diku.dk (Jesper Honig Spring) writes:

>Hello

>Does anyone know of a PD version of Miranda for Linux.

>If not how about a similar functional programming language 
>I have heard of a FPL called GOPHER for DOS, which should
>almost be identical to Miranda, but I cannot seem to find
>it anywhere

It's available for ftp at your own department (among lots of other
places): sources in
        ftp.diku.dk:/pub/languages/gofer/gofer2.28.tar.Z
-- 
Peter Sestoft   *   sestoft@id.dth.dk   *   Department of Computer Science
Technical University of Denmark, Building 344      DK-2800 Lyngby, Denmark
Tel: +45 45 93 33 32 * Direct: +45 45 93 12 22/3749 * Fax: +45 42 88 45 30

------------------------------

From: adelhardt@urz.uni-bamberg.d400.de (Daniel Adelhardt)
Subject: X-Free x.x and Diamonond Stealth 24
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 15:09:45 GMT

has someone already successfully tried out x-free and a diamond s3-card???
if yes what does the xconfig look like and wich distribution shall i use??

thanks in advance

adelhardt@urz.uni-bamberg.d400.de

------------------------------

From: alovell@kerberos.demon.co.uk (Anthony Lovell)
Subject: Re: Jana CDs shipped in November?
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 13:41:40 +0000

David Parkinson (dwp@fmg.bt.co.uk) wrote:
: David Van Cleef (dvc@eagle.hr.att.com) wrote:

: : Incidentally has anyone gotten a CD from JANA that hasn't had a broken
: : jewel case?  So far they're three for three, ranging all the way from
: : just cracked to practically shattered.

: Of the two I've received here in the UK the first had a small crack,
: the second arrived in perfect condition.

Lucky  you I've not recieved one of the November shipping yet, I've also
not recieved a reply to mail sent to jana asking where it is.

--

anthony

==============================================================================
alovell@kerberos.demon.co.uk          |   If at first you don't succeed
                                      |
alovell@cix.compulink.co.uk           |   Get a Bigger Hammer
==============================================================================

------------------------------

From: abraham@research.att.com (Per Abrahamsen)
Subject: Re: Linux IS well documented.
Date: 09 Dec 1993 00:25:56 GMT


>>>>> "Matt" == Matt Welsh <mdw@cs.cornell.edu> writes:

Matt> Info is a bit difficult because it requires the writer to do a
Matt> lot of work. Not long ago, I made a real push for a ``One True
Matt> Format''---a documentation source format that could easily be
Matt> converted to LaTeX (printed docs), nroff/groff (printed docs and
Matt> ASCII) and texinfo (for info), or directly to Info. Someday, I
Matt> plan to follow up on this.

Please don't.  As long as the documentation is written in a mark-up
language, you can normally convert it to another mark-up language, and
there exists tools for converting between many of the popular mark-up
languages.  But please do not invent yet another one...

Matt> One way to go might be SGML, however, few freely-available tools
Matt> currently exist for this (apart from parsers). Looking at SGML,
Matt> it looks like a great option, but might be overkill.

SGML is a language for defining mark-up languages.  You don't want
SGML, but one of the languages defined by SGML.  The most popular of
these is HTML used by WWW.  There are plenty of browsers and some
editors for HTML, and there exists filters from just about anything to
HTML.

Matt> My idea for the OTF would be to have a "small", simple format
Matt> (looking something like LaTeX, for example) providing basic
Matt> functionality for documenting software: i.e. the ability to
Matt> change fonts, sectioning and cross-reference commands, lists,
Matt> "verbatim" screen environment, and not much else.

This is what TeXinfo is intended for.  TeXinfo is not _that_ bad, if
one use a recent version of Emacs to edit the files.  Emacs will now
do all the tedious work about maintaining the structure for you.

Matt> Because direct analogues to these logical elements exist in all
Matt> of the target formats listed above, it would be a simple matter
Matt> to convert OTF to whatever "target" format for processing.  (In
Matt> fact, much of the work could be done through a Perl script, in
Matt> many cases.)

The best browsers currently exists for HTML, so I would suggest
adopting HTML as the target format, and accept source in any form that
translates easily to HTML.  This includes Microsoft RTF, LaTeX, and
TeXinfo.  For a uniform look TeXinfo source would be best, since that
is the most strict mark-up language.

------------------------------

From: rzm@oso.chalmers.se (Rafal Maszkowski)
Subject: Re: my pl13q died ):
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1993 15:40:38 GMT

Gregory Gulik (greg@serveme.chi.il.us) wrote:
: In article <2db288$hkl@news.u.washington.edu> carlb@hardy.u.washington.edu (Carl Boernecke) writes:
: >I'm running pl13t right now (from the system I'm typing this
: >message on).  I stripped the kernel of all the extra drivers,
: >and don't use this sytem much, but still...
: >  12:30pm  up 1 day, 10:24,  2 users,  load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
: Well, pl13t survived just over 7 days before it succumbed to the
: skbuf overload and Smail lock file problems!!!
: I have pl14 running now:
:  11:55pm  up 1 day,  4:11, 13 users,  load average: 0.25, 0.17, 0.17

My pl14 was hanging silently after 1-10 hours. I hope I'll more luck with
14a (almost 3 h now) - if not i'll back pl13q which was working 12 days
for me once.

R.
--
Rafal Maszkowski rzm@oso.chalmers.se rzm@mat.torun.edu.pl <-finger for public
snail: Omgangen 464-82, 412-80 Goteborg, Sweden; tel: +46-31-7780831      key
   Opinia publiczna powinna byc zaalarmowana swoim nieistnieniem - S.J.Lec

------------------------------

From: odiug@messua.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (Guido Muesch)
Subject: [Q] Scanner software ?
Date: 9 Dec 1993 00:46:15 GMT

Stupid question: Is there any scanner software available somewhere?
And for what scanners?
I can currently get hold of a marstek M-800 handyscanner (I think that was
its name).
And I wonder if something is already available.
Does somebody know this thing?
The scanner consists of a PC-slot card and the scanner itself.

Somebody can give me a hint?

Thanx
  Guido

-- 
   /\    email:  odiug@pool.informatik.rwth-aachen.de
__/  \  ______________________________________________________________________
      \/ snail: Guido Muesch, Ruetscher Str.175/1104, 52072 Aachen (Germany)

------------------------------

From: bolton.sbd-e@rx.xerox.com (Andy Bolton)
Subject: Re: Yet another benchmark results..
Date: 8 Dec 93 10:13:50 GMT
Reply-To: bolton.sbd-e@rx.xerox.com

In article 2866@spectrum.xerox.com, bolton.sbd-e@rx.xerox.com (Andy Bolton) writes:
>In article 16788@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu, viznyuk@mps.ohio-state.edu (Dragon Fly) writes:
>
>>     Computer                             Time spent
>>
>>486DX2-66 EISA/VL 16Mb RAM
>>running Linux (Slackware 1.1.0).
>>gcc compiler.
>>Single user                               27 sec.
>>
>>SUN Sparc-2 with >= 16 Mb RAM
>>running SunOS
>>Single user                               69 sec.
>>
>>DEC VAX with ALPHA chip
>>running VMS
>>With quite a few users on                 69 sec.
>>
>>SUN-4
>>running SunOS
>>Single user                               73 sec.
>>
>>DEC VAXstation 3100
>>running VMS
>>Single user                               405 sec.
>
>Sun Sparc IPX
>SunOS 4.1.2
>Single User                                88 sec.
>
>486DX-33 VL 
>Linux Slackware
>Single user                                168 sec.
>
>IBM RS/6000 320H
>AIX 3.2
>Single User                                15 sec.
>
>Can't wait to try it on my 386SX20 at home.....

386SX20 ISA 8MB
Linux13(SLS)
Single User                                 407 sec.

Cheers,

Andy.

#include <std/disclaimer>       'Opinions are mine, not my Employers'
________________________________________________________________________________
                                        |
  Andrew_Bolton.sbd-e@rx.xerox.com      |       Rank Xerox Technical Centre
  abolton@jaguar.demon.co.uk            |       Welwyn Garden City, Herts.
  abolton@cix.compulink.co.uk           |       ENGLAND
________________________________________|_______________________________________
Obscenity is what happens to shock some elderly and ignorant
magistrate.        Bertrand Russell.

------------------------------


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