Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #421
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Mon, 13 Dec 93 08:13:13 EST

Linux-Misc Digest #421, Volume #1                Mon, 13 Dec 93 08:13:13 EST

Contents:
  Re: PAS 16 with AHA 1542 (John Markus Bjoerndalen)
  Re: Trident 8900CL and 1024x768 256 Resolution (David Biesack)
  Re: PAS 16 with AHA 1542 (Gerd Rausch)
  Re: Linux / DOS boot chooser anywhere? (Ross Boswell)
  X (ADAM HUSIK)
  Printed LDP manuals? (was (DAVIN GEORGE)
  Re: Can S3 X server support 1280x1024 at higher than 85Hz refresh rate. (Steven Buytaert)
  Re: X-Windows (Steven Buytaert)
  Re: Who is the typical Linux user? (Jim Graham)
  *** PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE POSTING *** (misc-2.07) (Ian Jackson)
  Re: Linux Consortium .. NOT! (Magnus Y Alvestad)
  Hierarchies (was: Re: Linux Consortium) (Lars Wirzenius)
  Re: Linux counter: Usage growth of Linux (Pekka Pietik{inen)
  Re: Linux / DOS boot chooser anywhere? (Arthur van Leeuwen)
  Re: Debate: Time to Remove SLS From archive sites? (Kai Petzke)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: johnm@stud.cs.uit.no (John Markus Bjoerndalen)
Subject: Re: PAS 16 with AHA 1542
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 03:51:09 GMT

In article <1993Dec12.175719.25653@sun0.urz.uni-heidelberg.de> Gregor Hoffleit (flight@mathi.uni-heidelberg.de) wrote:
 ] Hi,

 ] if you have a look into the NeXT newsgroup you could get the idea that it
 ] is impossible to get an PAS16 sound card work in conjunction with an
 ] Adaptec 1542 SCSI host (at least with an high-performance OS). This is
 ] said to be caused by HW problems (busmastering conflicts...)

Actually, I got this setup to work on a puter with NeXT Step 3.1.  (It
took me a couple of days and a bit of tweaking to get it up though.
This wasn't just the problem with the PAS/AHA, but 3.1 was pretty
immature when it came to hw support at the time. Guess 3.2 will be
better).

The only problem I had after I got it up was when I played
samples. (only small samples. I didn't dare try to play any long ones
after reading the info about busmaster problems). The samples would
play with the sound "on/off/on/off" etc. Pretty funny effect ;-)


 ] On the other hand, the snddrv supports the PAS16 and I never heard about
 ] problems with it. Is it just that nobody uses the AHA 1542 anymore if he
 ] has the SCSI port on the PAS16, or is the snddrv so much smarter, that it
 ] works, or is just the disk buffering better with Linux (so that conflicts
 ] are very unlikely due to rarer disk access) ?

Getting the same setup to work on linux was much easier. Though I
Haven't tried to play any samples on the soundcard. (I got it to
interface a Joystick. And it was the only thing working with NeXT). As
a joystick interface it works beautifully.  Just be sure you're
selecting unused DMA's etc :)

I guess using it as a joystick interface is not supposed to cause any
problems. As far as I can remember the problem with the busmastering
was that if you used the disk when you played sounds, the AHA could
hold the bus so long that the PAS16 would lock up and you had to
reboot the puter before you could get it to work again. (Can anyone
correct me on this ?)  (That is, if you can read it. Think it's
bedtime for me now ;-) )

If I'm right here the only thing that would make linux "safe"
to use with the PAS and the AHA would be if it transferred 
smaller blocks to to/from the disk. Don't know if you'd call
that "better"... but... 

 ]      Gregor

--
        / John Markus Bjxrndalen
        / johnm@stud.cs.uit.no  (at uit)
        / johnm@autosim.no      (at work)

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
From: sasdjb@unx.sas.com (David Biesack)
Subject: Re: Trident 8900CL and 1024x768 256 Resolution
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 03:19:17 GMT

beaman@andrews.edu (Kendall Beaman) writes:

>    Sorry if this is in a FAQ somewhere but I didn't see it in my copy.  I
>have the Trident 8900CL and wanted to get 1024x768x256 in X-Windows.  I
>have 8 megs of memory but don't run any swap.  What do I need to get this
>resolution.  I can get 800x600 easily but when I try the higher one it locks
>up on me.  Should I be running a swap file/partition?  HELP!!

You have to move one of the jumpers on the card in order to disable
the zero-wait-state mode.  This is documented in the README.trident
file in X386/lib/X11/etc .  (I had the same problem and this fixed
it pronto.)  BTW, if you are running X11 w/ 8Meg, you will probably
need a swap partition if you plan to actually do anything non-trivial...

djb

--
David J. Biesack                        SAS Institute, Inc.     
Object Programming Technology           SAS Campus Drive        
sasdjb@unx.sas.com                      Cary, NC 27513-2414     
mcnc!sas!sasdjb                         (919) 677-8000 ext. 7771


------------------------------

From: eedger@teamos41.ericsson.se (Gerd Rausch)
Subject: Re: PAS 16 with AHA 1542
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1993 22:47:20 GMT

>>>>> "Gregor" == Gregor Hoffleit <flight@mathi.uni-heidelberg.de> writes:
In article <1993Dec12.175719.25653@sun0.urz.uni-heidelberg.de> flight@mathi.uni-heidelberg.de (Gregor Hoffleit) writes:


    Gregor> Hi, if you have a look into the NeXT newsgroup you could
    Gregor> get the idea that it is impossible to get an PAS16 sound
    Gregor> card work in conjunction with an Adaptec 1542 SCSI host
    Gregor> (at least with an high-performance OS). This is said to be
    Gregor> caused by HW problems (busmastering conflicts...)

    Gregor> On the other hand, the snddrv supports the PAS16 and I
    Gregor> never heard about problems with it. Is it just that nobody
    Gregor> uses the AHA 1542 anymore if he has the SCSI port on the
    Gregor> PAS16, or is the snddrv so much smarter, that it works, or
    Gregor> is just the disk buffering better with Linux (so that
    Gregor> conflicts are very unlikely due to rarer disk access) ?

I have a PAS16 running together with an Adaptec 1542B, with no proplems
so far. What kind of problems are they referring to ?

   - Slower disk access ? - I've got roughly 1MB/sec together with the cluster patches,
                            which is the same while playing sound files.
   - Garbled sound output ? - This happens, when I try to play 16bit stereo sound files
     at a sampling rate >= 10kHz

   - Is there some danger of data lossage attached to this setup ?

If someone knows more about any problems with this setup, please enlighten me

    Gregor> -- | Gregor Hoffleit admin MATHInet / contact HeidelNeXT |
    Gregor> | MAIL: Mathematisches Institut PHONE: (49)6221 56-5771 |
    Gregor> | INF 288, 69120 Heidelberg / Germany FAX: 56-3812 | |
    Gregor> EMAIL: flight@mathi.uni-heidelberg.de (NeXTmail) |
--
Don't let the ".se" fool you

____/|  Gerd Rausch
\ o.O|
 =(_)=  voice: +49-2407-575-353
   U    email: eedger@aachen.ericsson.se

------------------------------

From: boswell@chem.canterbury.ac.nz (Ross Boswell)
Subject: Re: Linux / DOS boot chooser anywhere?
Reply-To: drb@chmeds.ac.nz
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 08:38:16 GMT

Jonny Farringdon (ucjtrjf@ucl.ac.uk) wrote:
: Is there an application out there which allows you to choose at boot time which disk partition you boot from - effectively a Linux / DOS boot chooser.

: The manual boot chooser (dos boot floppy inserted or not) is fine, but a bit low tech. ;-)  J.

There is a program called BOOTLIN.COM that runs under DOS and loads a Linux
kernel image.  I use a DOS MBR and a CONFIG.SYS menu with the Linux section
the single line:
SHELL=C:\LINUX\BOOTLIN.COM C:\LINUX\ZIMAGE
The system works well and it doesn't confuse my kids who want to boot the
(default) DOS to play games.
--
+-----------------------------------------+-----------------------------+
| Ross Boswell                            |  Email    drb@chmeds.ac.nz  |
| Christchurch School of Medicine         |  FAX      +64 3 364 0525    |
| PO Box 4345, Christchurch, NEW ZEALAND  |  Phone    +64 3 364 0590    |
+-----------------------------------------+-----------------------------+

------------------------------

From: adam.husik@njcc.wisdom.bubble.org (ADAM HUSIK)
Subject: X
Date: 12 Dec 93 00:28:55 GMT


    I have a monochrome twinhead notebook, with a cirrus logic CL-6
D6420 VGA BIOS. When I try to run STARTX I see my monitor go crazy with
geometric designs, untill I press CNT-ALT-BKSPACE to quit X. Does anyone
have some ideas as to how I could get X to run on my machine(In
greyscale, monochrome?)?
    Thanks in advance,

Adam Husik

------------------------------

From: davin.george@welcom.gen.nz (DAVIN GEORGE)
Subject: Printed LDP manuals? (was
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1993 21:47:00 GMT


MW>I have entirely rewritten the first 3 chapters, and revised several
MW>of the appendices. The I&GS continues to improve, and I'd like to see
MW>distributors using it as an installation guide. It would save you a
MW>lot of work in writing your own!

What would be the chances of getting a copy of what you've done so far.
I'm in the stage of writing a Linux Introductory Book for Dos Users and
I'ld appreciate any information. I'm intending to have the first draft
finished in about 18 months provided everything goes okay. I'm intending
to make this just a General Linux book with references to the different
brands of Linux ie Yggdrasil which I use myself. If you're interested in
helping it'ld be greatly appreciated. I figured its about time somebody
came up with a book for the Dos people among us as Dos will be around for
a while yet. Thanks.

                                                Catch Ye Later
                                                 Davin George

Davin.George@Welcom.Gen.Nz


    WinQwk 2.0 a#0

------------------------------

From: buytaert@imec.be (Steven Buytaert)
Subject: Re: Can S3 X server support 1280x1024 at higher than 85Hz refresh rate.
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 10:16:49 GMT

Mario Easter (mse01@eng.amdahl.com) wrote:
: I recently heard that the XFree86 S3 X server can support 1280x1024 but
: the maximum clock supported is 85hz. Is this true? I was hoping to get
: a good refresh rate around 110Hz.

 Hi,

 I can not give you a direct yes or no. The only thing I can advice
 is to *LEARN and STUDY* (!= to read) the VideoModes.doc file, 
 that came with your Xfree distribution. 
 
 If your card, whatever card, can clock the pixels at
 a sufficient high rate *and* you have sufficient video ram, the 
 number of lines HR or VR or refresh rate are in your own hands.
 *LEARN* what is in that doc file; it is not that difficult. I did
 it and I don't have a masters degree in whatever...
 I could NOT get my monitor displaying a better picture due to the fixed
 horizontal scan frequencies, *BUT* I learned a lot and boy, did 
 that felt good... BTW, when I'll buy a monitor now, I can realy
 swap the salesguy of his feet 8^) AND buy a monitor that'll do what
 *I* want...

--
Steven Buytaert 
Interuniversity Micro Electronics Centre - Invomec Division
Kapeldreef 75, 3001 Heverlee, BELGIUM

phone   : +32 16 281 271
fax     : +32 16 281 584
e-mail  : buytaert@imec.be
                In case of danger, BREAK glass

------------------------------

From: buytaert@imec.be (Steven Buytaert)
Subject: Re: X-Windows
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 10:22:02 GMT

ADAM HUSIK (adam.husik@njcc.wisdom.bubble.org) wrote:

:     Guess What?! I finally got X-windows to run in mono mode with my
: laptop, and a mouse. Thanks a lot for the great replys I got on how to
: partition my HD using mke2fs. My only problem now is that I get the
: basic Xmono mode running, but then only have a empty screen with no
: menu's, or ways to run a program. Where do I go from here to run the
: sample programs that came with my SLS package?

  I don't know SLS, but how did you start your X? Invoking just X on
  the command line doesn't do the trick. There should be a command
  like startx, which starts your X server, window manager and runs 
  maybe a few xterms. You should find your way from there...

  For more information, I can do a 'man startx' on my DEBIAN BETA
  release.

  BTW, don't call it 'X-windows'. Call it whatever you like but
  not 'X-windows' (X11, X window system, ...)

--
Steven Buytaert 
Interuniversity Micro Electronics Centre - Invomec Division
Kapeldreef 75, 3001 Heverlee, BELGIUM

phone   : +32 16 281 271
fax     : +32 16 281 584
e-mail  : buytaert@imec.be
                In case of danger, BREAK glass

------------------------------

From: jim@n5ial.mythical.com (Jim Graham)
Subject: Re: Who is the typical Linux user?
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1993 16:14:48 GMT

In article <2e9gib$c7q@solaris.cc.vt.edu> juphoff@uppieland.async.vt.edu
(Uppie) writes:

>Not just novice users...you can't buy a damn PC anymore without
>all kinds of DOS junk plopped on it from most companies.  (You can
>request that they not include the stuff, but you won't get a nickel
>off the price.)

I have an easy solution to that one.....  You go from store to store,
getting pricing information for a system (or the individual components
to build a system) with a list of things that you want.  Allow room for
optional changes (e.g., ``you said you wanted a 250 Meg hard disk---you
can get a 360 Meg hard disk for only $50 more if you want it''), but
make it clear that you aren't interested in pre-loaded software at all,
and if they insist on including this and charging you for it, it's going
to count AGAINST them, not for them, in the comparison with their
competition.

Then, if/when a vendor gives you a price for a whole system, including a
bunch of pre-loaded junk you don't want, you remind them that you aren't
interested in the pre-loaded junk and that if their price is higher because
of this, it will hurt them in the comparison with their competition.  If
they don't care enough at this point, they probably aren't worth doing
business with anyways, but that depends on other aspects of their attitude,
too, so it's hard to say....

Btw, yes, I am the type of customer that vendors with an attitude problem
don't like...not only do I not come back, but I also blab a lot about how
lousy they treated me, and so on.  Vendors with a good attitude, on the
other hand, love me for similar reasons (i.e., I do come back, and I blab
a lot about how well they treated me).

Later,
   --jim

PS:  Sorry for the only partially Linux-related post, but since this does
     deal with buying hardware to run Linux on, well, it sort of works
     out...maybe...just a little bit...I hope....  :-)

--
#include <std_disclaimer.h>                                  73 DE N5IAL (/4)
=========================< Running Linux 0.99 PL10 >==========================
INTERNET: jim@n5ial.mythical.com  |  j.graham@ieee.org     ICBM: 30.23N 86.32W
AMATEUR RADIO:  (packet station temporarily offline)       AMTOR SELCAL: NIAL
==============================================================================
E-mail me for information about KAMterm (host mode for Kantronics TNCs).


------------------------------

From: ijackson@nyx.cs.du.edu (Ian Jackson)
Subject: *** PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE POSTING *** (misc-2.07)
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 11:03:02 GMT

Please do not post questions to comp.os.linux.misc - read on for details of
which groups you should read and post to.

Please do not crosspost anything between different groups of the comp.os.linux
hierarchy.  See Matt Welsh's introduction to the hierarchy, posted weekly.

If you have a question about Linux you should get and read the Linux Frequently
Asked Questions with Answers list from sunsite.unc.edu, in /pub/Linux/docs, or
from another Linux FTP site.  It is also posted periodically to c.o.l.announce.

In particular, read the question `You still haven't answered my question!'
The FAQ will refer you to the Linux HOWTOs (more detailed descriptions of
particular topics) found in the HOWTO directory in the same place.

Then you should consider posting to comp.os.linux.help - not
comp.os.linux.misc.

Note that X Windows related questions should go to comp.windows.x.i386unix, and
that non-Linux-specific Unix questions should go to comp.unix.questions.
Please read the FAQs for these groups before posting - look on rtfm.mit.edu in
/pub/usenet/news.answers/Intel-Unix-X-faq and .../unix-faq.

Only if you have a posting that is not more appropriate for one of the other
Linux groups - ie it is not a question, not about the future development of
Linux, not an announcement or bug report and not about system administration -
should you post to comp.os.linux.misc.


Comments on this posting are welcomed - please email me !
--
Ian Jackson  <ijackson@nyx.cs.du.edu>  (urgent email: iwj10@phx.cam.ac.uk)
2 Lexington Close, Cambridge, CB4 3LS, England;  phone: +44 223 64238

------------------------------

From: magnus@svartbak.ii.uib.no (Magnus Y Alvestad)
Subject: Re: Linux Consortium .. NOT!
Date: 13 Dec 1993 11:16:03 GMT
Reply-To: magnus@ii.uib.no

In article <1993Dec13.014237.25671@henson.cc.wwu.edu> markline@henson.cc.wwu.edu (Mark Line) writes:

   I've always tried not to speak for you. Even if you've given up on
   any LC plans (under any name), that doesn't mean the rest of us have.

I have not. There will be a similar effort. We will organize reviews,
ratings and write a Linux Buyer's Guide. Will make a call for
volunteer testers after christmas.

-Magnus

------------------------------

From: wirzeniu@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Lars Wirzenius)
Subject: Hierarchies (was: Re: Linux Consortium)
Date: 13 Dec 1993 14:16:06 +0200

markline@henson.cc.wwu.edu (Mark Line) writes:
> Didn't somebody say that the Linux community *had* no ladder, had no
> hierarchy, had a flat de-facto organization?

Many people say that the Earth is flat.

In my humble opinion, there is a hierarchy in the Linux community.
This is the same kind of hierarchy that exists among hacker-type people
in general.  It is based on knowledge and results.  There are lots of
people in the Linux community that just use Linux.  They are at the
second lowest level in the hierarchy.  Then there are people who do
things, either by writing code or by helping other people a lot, or by
serving the community in other useful ways.  These are one level above
the users.  Above them is one more level where those that do a lot
are.  These are the key figures, without whom Linux wouldn't exist at
all, and without whom development would at least partially stop (unless
and until someone else takes over).  Those on the highest level are
called `the developers', but at least some of the people on the second
highest level also belong to that group.  

It is important to realize that the hierarchy is based solely on merits.
If you want to rise, do something useful.  If you want to rise a lot,
do a lot.  If people like what you do, you rise.

Exactly who belongs to which class, depends on who you ask.  Some people
are clear cases: Linus is the creme de la creme (or whatever it is the
French say).  Personally, I would put the distribution creators in the top
class (even Peter, for his merits are great).

(The lowest level, the one below the users, consists of people who do bad
things for Linux.  Flaming a lot is one example, but again, this is 
subjective.  Often discussion, even heated discussion, is good.  I wouldn't
put, to take a random example, a certain Mark Line to the lowest class,
despite some hurt feelings he has caused, because on the whole, this whole
LC discussion has resulted in good things.  An example of someone whom
I might put in the lowest class is someone who now starts a flame war about
whether the LDP books should be provided in ASCII or not.  (Background: afaik,
they are all written or being written using LaTeX, and conversion to ASCII
is not a nice job to do by hand, so they are distributed as LaTeX and
Postscript.  People who don't know LaTeX, and can't print Postscript, get
angry about this.  We've probably had a dozen flame wars about it, and the
strong consensus among the writers is that we'll do it as soon as there
is a program to do the conversion automatically.  One such tool exists,
and for example my SAG will come out as ASCII (but don't ask when it will
come out).  Because of this, I hope you can understand why I would consider
someone who started flaming about this to be destructive.  On the other hand,
those who still wait for their ASCII, might consider him to be constructive,
so they might not put him in the lower class.  It depends on ones point of
view.)

--
Lars.Wirzenius@helsinki.fi  (finger wirzeniu@klaava.helsinki.fi)
Humans are unreliable, computers are non-deterministically reliable.

------------------------------

From: pp@lyseo.otol.fi (Pekka Pietik{inen)
Subject: Re: Linux counter: Usage growth of Linux
Date: 13 Dec 1993 12:19:00 GMT

Rafal Maszkowski (rzm@oso.chalmers.se) wrote:
: : But most of them do not have internet access.  Most of them are not
: : able to register to the Linux counter.

: Registration thru BBS-es would help.

I think that it would work trough fidonet... But somebody should
inform the people in Fidonet exactly how to register...

=======================================================
|  Pekka Pietik{inen | Oulun Lyseon lukio Senior High |
|  Majakkatie 8      | Class 1A                       |
|  90520 Oulu        |                                |
|  Finland           | pp@lyseo.otol.fi               |
=======================================================

------------------------------

From: arthurvl@sci.kun.nl (Arthur van Leeuwen)
Subject: Re: Linux / DOS boot chooser anywhere?
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 12:14:49 GMT

In <1993Dec10.112259.87543@ucl.ac.uk> ucjtrjf@ucl.ac.uk (Jonny Farringdon) writes:

>Is there an application out there which allows you to choose at boot time which disk partition you boot from - effectively a Linux / DOS boot chooser.

Well, there is bteasy.zip, which I got from comp.binaries.ibm.pc, which
works very well, and allows you to choose what os you want to run at
the tap of a button. The proggy should be around somewhere, but don't
ask where. I could email it to you uuencoded, but that would probably
take some days, as I'm having some memory lapses lately.

>The manual boot chooser (dos boot floppy inserted or not) is fine, but a bit low tech. ;-)  J.

I can't agree more!

Bye,

--
    <>      <>  Arthur van Leeuwen
   <><>    <>   arthurvl@sci.kun.nl
  <>--<>  <>      Schizofrenia is a way of life, 
 <>    <><><><    not a mind disease.

------------------------------

From: wpp@lise.physik.tu-berlin.de (Kai Petzke)
Subject: Re: Debate: Time to Remove SLS From archive sites?
Date: 13 Dec 1993 12:58:22 GMT

In <2egdqg$6ja@genesis.ait.psu.edu> fee@cxf111.rh.psu.edu (Chuck Fee) writes:

>Bill C. Riemers (bcr@bohr.physics.purdue.edu) wrote:
>: I for one would be opposed to this, unless Peter where to request this
>: action himself.  

>I too would love to hear his opinion in this matter, but alas,
>I think he is gone.

This is no problem.  Peter's SLS company has a real address.  Write
a letter to him, and tell him about the problem, that SLS was outdated,
and that you were going to delete it, unless he is willing to update on
his software.

If there comes no responce, delete SLS.  Even if Peter is willing
to provide an up-to-date distribution again in future, this will
be totally different, from what we have today.  In other words --
there is even no network load saved, when SLS is pertained.

Just to give an example.  People regularly e-mail me, that they have
problems compiling Postgres.  They expect, that my distribution is
half a year old and must be outdated.

But in 4 of 5 cases, the problems were caused by the shell utility
awk as found in the SLS distribution - which is more than twice as
old!

--
Kai
wpp@marie.physik.tu-berlin.de
Advertisement by Microsoft in a well-known German magazine:
        If you don't like our programmes, then make your own ones.
However, they expect you to use Microsoft products for this -:)

------------------------------


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