Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #424
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Tue, 14 Dec 93 00:17:22 EST

Linux-Misc Digest #424, Volume #1                Tue, 14 Dec 93 00:17:22 EST

Contents:
  SB Pro and CD-ROM (j.paradis)
  Re: SB Pro and CD-ROM (Paul Tomblin)
  BIG PROBLEM: Slackware 1.10 trashes my DOS 6.2 partition on Ultrastor ("Joel L. Seber ... CH210")
  Xfractint under Linux? (Steve Wampler)
  How do I get 'ps' to work? (Martin F. Falatic)
  Re: _Real_ hackers ... (Peyton Reed)
  Exabyte 8200s supported? (Mark Morley)
  Re: Yet another benchmark results.. (Dragon Fly)
  Re: _Real_ hackers ... (Elan Feingold)
  Re: _Real_ hackers ... (Thomas J Bilan)
  Re: Linux counter: Usage growth of Linux (Senthil R. Kumar)
  Re: Who is the typical Linux user? (Tommy Marcus McGuire)
  Re: _Real_ hackers ... (Kai Petzke)
  Re: Yet another benchmark results.. (Anders Rolff)
  Re: Hierarchies (was: Re: Linux Consortium) (Andreas Klemm)
  Re: Who is the typical Linux user? (Barb Beck)
  Re: Debate: Time to Remove SLS From archive (Bob Myers)
  Re: Who is the typical Linux user? (Thomas Haywood)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jparadis@ariel.sobeco.com (j.paradis)
Subject: SB Pro and CD-ROM
Reply-To: jparadis@ariel.sobeco.com (j.paradis)
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 18:25:35 GMT

  HI!

  Probably a FAQ...   Sorry, I need a fast answer!

  Is Linux compatible with the SB Pro CD-ROM interface?  With the Double Drive
Omni CD, it looks like a good deal.  I may also consider the CD-ROM version
of Linux.  Any advice for an interface card?

  Please answer me by mail,

  Thanks in advance,

                    Jerome

------------------------------

From: ab401@freenet.carleton.ca (Paul Tomblin)
Subject: Re: SB Pro and CD-ROM
Reply-To: ab401@freenet.carleton.ca
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 19:25:30 GMT

jparadis@ariel.sobeco.com (j.paradis) writes:
>Omni CD, it looks like a good deal.  I may also consider the CD-ROM version
>of Linux.  Any advice for an interface card?

One little warning: Don't expect easy installation of the CD if you bought 
the Morse CD.  It just has the generic boot disks on it, and neither the 
Slackware or the SLS ones have the SB/CD support coded in.  Although one does 
say it detected the SB, neither of them seem to detect the CD.  I think I'm 
going to have to make a minimal set of installation disks from the CD, then 
reconfigure the kernal to recognize the CD, then install the rest from the 
CD.  ARRGGGHHH!!!

-- 
Paul Tomblin - Vicki Robinson's newsgroupie.

------------------------------

From: "Joel L. Seber ... CH210" <JLS2013@tntech.edu>
Subject: BIG PROBLEM: Slackware 1.10 trashes my DOS 6.2 partition on Ultrastor
Date: 13 Dec 1993 19:13:47 -0500
Reply-To: JLS2013@tntech.edu

System setup: 486DX2/66, 16MB RAM, 1.3GB Connor SCSI hard disk, Ultrastor
34F SCSI controller, MS-DOS 6.2

I have tried twice now to install Slackware 1.10 on the system above, each
time having the same result: the DOS partition is trashed beyond recovery
after the install.  I get "missing operating system" upon a boot attempt and
DOS' "fdisk" shows the system type for the first partition as "unknown".

I have been an SLS user, but the Slackware distribution had later copies of
XFree, Emacs, and other key software for me, so I thought I'd try it.  I
completely wiped the /dev/sda2 and sda3 partitions from my drive with Linux
from the 1.10 bootdisk, then reestablished them as directed.  I made
/dev/sda2 a 16MB swap partition, and the rest of my drive ( about 700MB )
sda3 for Linux.  As I was installing the FIRST time, I answered 'yes' to the
question concerning making my MS-DOS partition visable to Linux.  The only
difference the SECOND time was that I answered "no" to that question.

Can ANYONE help?  I can always go back to SLS, but I would at least like to
know what happened in this case and see if it can be fixed.  Please mail
directly to me, jls2013@tntech.edu, and I will summarize to the list to save
bandwidth.

Many thanks in advance,

Joel L. Seber                           | Dry humor is wasted around here.
SUN Workstation Laboratory Manager      |
Center for Manufacturing Research       |                 -Joel L. Seber
      and Technology Utilization        |
Tennessee Technological University      | recursive, adj.
Cookeville, TN  38505                   |     See 'recursive'
                                        |
jls2013@tntech.edu                      |


------------------------------

From: swampler@noao.edu (Steve Wampler)
Subject: Xfractint under Linux?
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 21:16:44 GMT

Has anyone succeeded in getting xfractint fully running under Linux?

I've been able to build it, and most things work fine, but I cannot
get 'zooming' to work at all (no response to trying to drag out a
zoom box).  I'll take any pointers.
-- 
Steve Wampler
swampler@noao.edu
Gemini Project (under AURA)

------------------------------

From: mff@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Martin F. Falatic)
Subject: How do I get 'ps' to work?
Date: 13 Dec 93 00:17:39 GMT


        I am not using a separate swap disk, btw. (one partition for it
all... I already had too many partitions.)
        I can't seem to get 'ps' to work consistently. Ever heard of that
problem?
                Marty

------------------------------

From: peyton@meaddata.com (Peyton Reed)
Subject: Re: _Real_ hackers ...
Date: 13 Dec 1993 21:49:29 GMT

In article <ab401.755799457@freenet>, ab401@freenet.carleton.ca (Paul Tomblin) writes:
|> ian@gl.umbc.edu (Ian Soboroff) writes:
|> 
|> >real hackers also read core dumps without a debugger, for fun.
|> 
|> real hackers suspend a magnet on a string, and use _that_ for reading core.
|> 
Real hackers have used computers that have core memory!

---
Peyton Reed                   We have met           (513) 865-6800 x4733
Mead Data Central             the enemy,              Server Operability
P.O. Box 933                and they is us.          peyton@meaddata.com
Dayton, Ohio  45401             -- Pogo        ...!uunet!meaddata!peyton

------------------------------

From: morley@suncad.camosun.bc.ca (Mark Morley)
Subject: Exabyte 8200s supported?
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 19:00:23 GMT

Hi all!  I am thinking picking up an Exabyte 8200s tape drive (2.5 Gigs
per tape).  Will it work ok under Linux?  I _think_ this is a SCSI device,
so I don't forsee a problem.  Anyone using one of these?

Mark

PS: I'm can get it for $650 Canadian - is that a good price?


------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware,comp.os.vms,comp.benchmarks,relcom.talk,relcom.fido.su.general
From: viznyuk@mps.ohio-state.edu (Dragon Fly)
Subject: Re: Yet another benchmark results..
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 21:50:20 GMT

Thanks to everybody who presented the
figures from their boxes.
As of today the accumulated results are:
 
 - - - - - - - - Original code - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
 #include <stdio.h>
 #include <math.h>
 #include <time.h>
 main()
 {
 double  x,y[1000000];
 int     i;
 time_t  t;
  
 time(&t);
 for (i=0;i<1000000;i++)
       {
       x=11.0+(33.5*i)*(33.5*i);
       y[i]=(sin(3.1*i)+cos(5.1*i))*sqrt(x+exp(3.14*log(x+i)));
       }
 printf("time=%d\n",time(0)-t);
 }
 - - - - - - - - - - - - Cut here - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
 
      Computer                             Time spent
  
 486DX2-66 EISA/VL 16Mb RAM
 running Linux (Slackware 1.1.0).
 gcc -O3 -o bench bench.c -lm
 Single user                               27 sec.
 
 486DX2-66
 AMI Enterprise III VL/EISA m/b with 32MB ram
 Linux 0.99pl14
 gcc 2.4.5.
 Standalone machine.                       27 sec.

 486DX2-66 ISA/VL 16Mb RAM 256K Cache
 MS-DOS
 MicroWay NDPC 4.30 -n2 -n3 -OLM -exp      25 sec

 486DX2-66 ISA/VL 24Mb RAM
 running Linux pl99.14, Xfree2.0, fvwm
 gcc -O6 compiler.
 Multiuser mode/Single User                28 sec.

 486-DX50 16MB Opti-Eisa-Chipset
 gcc -O2
 running Linux 0.99p13r                    36 sec.

 486DX50 ISA 8Mb RAM, 256K cashe
 running Debian Linux 0.81BETA
 4  users                                  59 sec.
 single user                               54 sec.

 486DX-33
 64Kb read cache
 16 megs memory
 Single user, only program running.        53 sec.

 486DX-33                                  59 sec.
 running Linux (pl13 kernel)
 16MB RAM

 486DX-33 ISA 8Mb RAM
 running Linux
 Single user, but many Windows,
 Swapping heavily                          94 sec. real, 58 sec. CPU

 AMD386DX40      8Mb     64k cache         8149 sec.
 OS/2 2.1
 gcc -O2 -o bench.cc bench .exe
 CPU load 100%, Active task count 9

 386/387-40 ISA Clone, 8M, 64k cache       102 sec.
 running OS/2 2.1
 bcc -O2 yab.c

 486DX2-66 ISA/VL 32Mb RAM
 running NextStep 3.2
 gcc compiler.
 Multiple User                             32 sec.

 486DX2-66 VLB Clone, 16M, 256k cache      45 sec.
 running OS/2 2.1
 gcc -O2 -m486 yab.c -o yab.exe

 486DX2-66 EISA/VL 32 MB RAM,
 256k Cache (Gateway 2000)
 running SCO 3.2v4.2
 cc compiler (single user)                 45 sec.
 cc compiler (multi user)                  47 sec.
 gcc compiler (single & multi use)         44 sec.

 60 MHz ALR Pentium Evolution              9 sec.
 QNX 4.2 with Watcom C v9.5
 cc -Otax -o bench bench.c -5 -Wc,-fp5 -N9000k

 SUN Sparc-10
 SunOS 4.1.3A                              30 sec.

 SUN Sparc-2 with >= 16 Mb RAM
 running SunOS
 Single user                               69 sec.
   
 SUN Sparc-IPX                             74 sec.

 SUN-4
 running SunOS
 Single user                               73 sec.
   
 VAX 3100/80
 running VMS
 Other users, but not much going on        182 sec.

 DEC VAX 6630
 running VMS                               79 sec.

 IBM RS6000/model 530
 running AIX 3.2.2
 RAM: 50mb
 single user                               13 sec.
   
 IBM RS6000/model 320
 running AIX 3.2.2
 RAM: 20mb
 single user                               16 sec.
   
 IBM RS6000/model 550
 running AIX 3.2.2
 RAM: 90mb
 single user                               7 sec.
  
 IBM RS6000 320
 running AIX 3.2.5
 Other users, but not much going on        18 sec.
 
 IBM RS6000 530
 running AIX 3.2.5
 Other users, but not much going on        13 sec.
  
 IBM PowerServer 520, 32 Mb RAM
 RS/6000 Chip
 running AIX 3.2.3e
 compilation in Background                 30 sec. real, 16 sec. CPU

 IBM PowerStation 320H, 32 Mb RAM
 RS/6000 Chip
 running AIX 3.2.3e
 single user                               12 sec. real, 12 sec. CPU

 IBM PowerServer 560, >32 Mb RAM
 RS/6000 Chip
 running AIX 3.2.5
 single user                               7 sec. real, 7 sec. CPU

 IBM 250 (the new PPC)                     13 (no optimization)
 AIX 3.2.5/X11R5                           10 (optimization on)
 64M ram

 HP Apollo
 running HP-UX 9.0                         16 sec.

 HP/PA 720 HPUX 9.01 64 Meg RAM            10 sec
 HP/PA 735 HPUX 9.01 64 Meg RAM            5 sec

 Hp-735 64 MB ram, pretty much idle,
 2 users HPUX 9.01                         3.9 sec

 HP 755, 2Mbyte cache, 766 Mbytes Ram      10 sec.
 100 Mhz PA7100 processor
 Running HP-UX, 34 users, 0.2 load average
 HP C compiler: cc +O3 yab.c -o yab.out -lm

 SGI 4D/35TG (MIPS R3000 based) 48Mb RAM   21 sec.
 running Irix 4.0.5C
 Single user
 
 SGI Onyx/4 (4xR4400/150 MIPS CPUS)        10 sec.
 128 Mb RAM
 Single user
 
 SGI Indigo, 32 Mb RAM
 running IRIX 4.0.5.
 multiuser but idle
 cc -O2 bench.c -o bench -lm               10 sec.

 SGI - MIPS 4000-100 64 MB RAM
 running IRIX Release 4.0.5H
 cc compile (multi user)                   11 sec.

 DEC VAXstation 3100 M76
 16M RAM
 Running VMS 5.5-2
 DECWindows Motif
 Single User with 8 process                262 sec.

 DEC Alpha AXP 150Mhz
 OSF1 1.2
 Multiuser mode                            7 sec

 DEC 3000 Model 400
 Single user                               9 sec.

 DECPc AXP 150 (6.6ns pass 2.1 EV4), 32mb RAM
 OpenVMS AXP V2-FT3
 Single User, DECnet, Motif                11 sec.
 Single User, No DECnet, No Motif          10 sec.

 DEC 3000-400 (6.6ns pass 2.1 EV4) 128mb RAM
 OpenVMS AXP V1.5
 Single User, DECnet, Motif                9 sec.

 DEC 4000/710 with 256MB of memory.
 DEC OSF/1 1.3 12 users, load avg 1.0
 cc -O3 viz.c -lm -non_shared              6 sec.

 - - - from another correspondent - - 
 I had to modify the code:
 
 double  x,*y;
 int     i;
 time_t  t;

 y = (double *) malloc (1000000 * sizeof(double));
 
 The DEC compiler didn't like the large array.
 
 DEC 5000/240 Ultrix 4.3 (load=0.11)        17 sec.
 
 DEC 5000/200 Ultrix 4.2 (load=0.00)        26 sec.
 
 SPARCstation 10/30 Solaris 2.2 (load=0.02) 47 sec.
 
 SPARCstation 10/42 Solaris 2.2 (load=0.20) 52 sec.
 
 
 - - - - - - from another correspondent - - - - - - - - - 
 
 I had to make the declaration of y global to prevent a segmentation
 violation on the DEC Alpha I ran it on.
 
 DEC 3000 Model 500                        6.7 s (avg. of 10 runs)
 DEC OSF/1 1.3
 Multi-user mode, one user logged in
 cc -O3 -o bench bench.c -lm -non_shared
 





 Serge

------------------------------

From: elan@tasha.cheme.cornell.edu (Elan Feingold)
Subject: Re: _Real_ hackers ...
Date: 13 Dec 1993 20:53:40 GMT
Reply-To: elan@tasha.cheme.cornell.edu (Elan Feingold)



Real hackers debug by listening to the interferance generated by the
running microprocessor on their FM radio.

elan

--
===========================================================================
|  Elan Feingold       |                                       |
|  CS/EE Depts.        |                          |
|  Cornell University  |     ( .sig currently under construction )     |
|  Ithaca NY 14850     |                        |
===========================================================================

------------------------------

From: bilan@cps.msu.edu (Thomas J Bilan)
Subject: Re: _Real_ hackers ...
Date: 13 Dec 1993 22:08:13 GMT

Peyton Reed (peyton@meaddata.com) wrote:
: In article <ab401.755799457@freenet>, ab401@freenet.carleton.ca (Paul Tomblin) writes:
: |> ian@gl.umbc.edu (Ian Soboroff) writes:
: |> 
: |> >real hackers also read core dumps without a debugger, for fun.
: |> 
: |> real hackers suspend a magnet on a string, and use _that_ for reading core.
: |> 
: Real hackers have used computers that have core memory!

Naaa... real hackers build everything out of NAND gates and provide proof
of their theories with Turing Machines... 

--
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
$ Department of Death by Engineering   ^   Surgeon General's Warning:        $
$ Michigan State University            ^   Graduate School may cause brain   $
$ bilan@cps.msu.edu                    ^   damage and sporadic loss of hair  $

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 16:43:18 EST
From: Senthil R. Kumar <SRK106@psuvm.psu.edu>
Subject: Re: Linux counter: Usage growth of Linux

I am not sure if this is also covered, but wouldnt it be a
good idea, to also accept registration by snail mail?

Perhaps, it should be mentioned as a last resort.

Kumar

------------------------------

From: mcguire@cs.utexas.edu (Tommy Marcus McGuire)
Subject: Re: Who is the typical Linux user?
Date: 13 Dec 1993 15:07:47 -0600

In article <stsai.755598085@scws3>,
Shun-Chang Tsai <stsai@scws3.harvard.edu> wrote:
>They'll want shrink-wrapped packages that are easy to use and
>do not require training.  

The only response I can come up with for this sort of comment is to
quote Alan Perlis and give them a lollipop.

(Then explain who who he was and point out that packages that
are easy to use and don't require training are either
(a) functionless or
(b) nonexistent.)




=====
Tommy McGuire
mcguire@cs.utexas.edu
mcguire@austin.ibm.com

"...I will append an appropriate disclaimer to outgoing public information,
identifying it as personal and as independent of IBM...."


------------------------------

From: wpp@marie.physik.tu-berlin.de (Kai Petzke)
Subject: Re: _Real_ hackers ...
Date: 13 Dec 1993 22:49:05 GMT

In <ab401.755799457@freenet> ab401@freenet.carleton.ca (Paul Tomblin) writes:

>ian@gl.umbc.edu (Ian Soboroff) writes:

>>real hackers also read core dumps without a debugger, for fun.

>real hackers suspend a magnet on a string, and use _that_ for reading core.

real hackers have eyes sensitive to static magnetic fields, and can read
disks, as others do with books.

--
Kai
wpp@marie.physik.tu-berlin.de
Advertisement by Microsoft in a well-known German magazine:
        If you don't like our programmes, then make your own ones.
However, they expect you to use Microsoft products for this -:)

------------------------------

From: rolff@vms.eurokom.ie (Anders Rolff)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware,comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: Yet another benchmark results..
Date: 13 Dec 93 14:49:55 CET

In article <2e85nk$g5s@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick) writes:
> Something which is heavily dependent on the math library against which you link
> your program.  There ARE a number of different math libraries out there for
> various platforms, you know.  Again, this renders the results meaningless.

This benchmark tests the system more so than the hardware. What's the point
in spending lots of money on fast hardware when compilers, operating system, 
standard [math] libraries, etc make programs run slowly? Lab generated 
benchmarks that don't reflect the actual speed with which programs will run 
on a platform are particularly meaningless.

Anders.

------------------------------

From: andreas@knobel.knirsch.de (Andreas Klemm)
Subject: Re: Hierarchies (was: Re: Linux Consortium)
Date: 13 Dec 1993 22:08:46 -0000

balister@maddog.async.vt.edu (Philip Balister) writes:

>Lars Wirzenius (wirzeniu@klaava.Helsinki.FI) wrote:
>[Excellent description deleted]

>: Exactly who belongs to which class, depends on who you ask.  Some people
>: are clear cases: Linus is the creme de la creme (or whatever it is the
>: French say).  Personally, I would put the distribution creators in the top
>: class (even Peter, for his merits are great).

>People who flame SLS should probably grep the kernel sources for Peter's
>name. For his work there alone he ranks high. Possibly kernel hackers
>don't make the best distribution organizers, but Peter did great things
>for Linux with the original SLS.

# find . -name "*.[ch]" -print | xargs grep MacDonald
./fs/select.c: * patches by Peter MacDonald. Heavily edited by Linus.
./drivers/char/console.c: *   Chars, and VT100 enhancements by Peter MacDonald.

Indeed (LX 099 PL14).

Andreas ///
-- 
Andreas Klemm                 /\/\____ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH 
andreas@knobel.knirsch.de ___/\/\/     andreas@sunny.wup.de (Unix Support)

------------------------------

From: barb@brule.forsci.ualberta.ca (Barb Beck)
Subject: Re: Who is the typical Linux user?
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 23:41:28 GMT

Dan Mattrazzo seems to think that 10 year olds and mothers are too dumb to
handle linux.  I have met several 10 year olds much more capable of
doing something on such a system than some cs grads.  My GRANDAUGHTER should
start learning something about it soon.
                                         GRANDMA Beck
                                         A linux user

------------------------------

From: bmyers@dseg.ti.com (Bob Myers)
Subject: Re: Debate: Time to Remove SLS From archive
Reply-To: bmyers@dseg.ti.com
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 18:53:31 GMT


I'd like to put my 2 cent's worth in here.

I too have wondered whether or not things came to a grinding halt with updating
the SLS 1.03 distribution on tsx-11.  I had thought that, due to all the SLS bashing
that I had seen on a few of these newsgroups, that Peter may have just given up
supporting this distribution.  Wanting to find out if this was the reason, I sent a
message to Peter asking about this, and about one or two days, later, got an
explaination....

It seems that Peter (and his wife) have been under a lot of pressure/stress as of 
late, and he just didn't have the time to do the upgrades (if you want further
info, I'd suggest that you send him a message about this).

Peter did tell me that he hopes to have SLS 1.05 out by the end of this month,
barring any other potential delays.  I'm planning on pulling it down to use it
on my 2nd system; I did switch over to Slackware on my primary system, due to
it being used as an Usenet news feed to a few systems in the DFW area. (I
needed to get the latest distribution running, since my origional setup
had my 2nd drive containing SLS 1.02 (updated in a few ways) and booted from
a floppy -- i had traded this drive (676 mb esdi technology) for a friend's equivelent
that was scsi technology (669 mb), and decided to use my remaining esdi drive as the
boot drive).

I had also found a lot of things were missing from the TAMU release, that I
required and gave up on that one.  I haven't tried any other distribution sets yet,
but I will say that i've been satisfied with SLS and Slackware so far; 
both distribution authors are willing to help with debugging a new installation
to get any new quirks located and resolved.

-bob

p.s.  these opinions are my own...and I know that I might be flamed being
pro-SLS.  However, if the one's who did the complaining would try to take the
time to collect everything together themselves and try to do a distribution
of a "working system", they may find that it's not a trivial task...

Also, I'm wondering if anyone else took the time to contact Peter to see why
the SLS release wasn't being updated...instead of griping about it.




------------------------------

From: tommy@zikzak.apana.org.au (Thomas Haywood)
Subject: Re: Who is the typical Linux user?
Date: 14 Dec 1993 11:19:21 +1100

Well the only reason I installed it is that I was spending massive amounts
of money on phone bills to uni. So I thought that this would save money
by being able to do all my work at home. Of course it being free helped.
-- 
Welcome to my new mail box...........
Tommy Haywood: tommy@zikzak.apana.org.au
2nd Year BCSE, Monash Uni/Clayton, Vic, Aus
Home: Wantirna Sth, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

------------------------------


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