Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #433
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Wed, 15 Dec 93 22:13:10 EST

Linux-Misc Digest #433, Volume #1                Wed, 15 Dec 93 22:13:10 EST

Contents:
  Re: not a Linux Consortium (Lars Wirzenius)
  tsx-11 on CDROM? (na6440800-Hill)
  terminal specs needed (Renee Teunissen)
  Re: _Real_ hackers ... (Peyton Reed)
  Re: Q: Internal modem and Linux (Carl Boernecke)
  Re: not a Linux Consortium (Matt Welsh)
  Re: Windows emulation was Re: Microsoft Invented Inferior Personal C (Jim Frost)
  _Real_ hackers ... (Enrico Scotoni)
  sendmail, smail, tin, etc. etc. (Enrico Scotoni)
  Re: Lisp anyone?  How about CMU Lisp?  Garnet? (Brian F. Dennis)
  Re: Who is the typical Linux user? (Stephen R. Savitzky)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: wirzeniu@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Lars Wirzenius)
Subject: Re: not a Linux Consortium
Date: 15 Dec 1993 20:14:58 +0200

andrewh@earlham.edu writes:
> How are you going to make this information available off the
> net?

I assume that the Distribution HOWTO will be posted to c.o.l.announce,
like all the others.

> How are distributors supposed to use these ratings to help sell
> their product?

They can say that their distribution got a good review.  Same thing
would happen if an LC would review it.

> Why should a non-technical uninformed user trust these ratings?

Why should he trust an LC rating?

> It would help to have a thumbs up / thumbs down approval from
> an independent organization.

Why?

> The approval should be based on a
> basic reasonableness of various distributions and CD-ROMs.

Ditto for the Distribution HOWTO.

The only difference between the Distribution HOWTO and LC is
that the DH doesn't have a (to repeat myself) pompous, official-looking
(but completely unofficial) name or image.  If people find that
the information in the DH is good, they will trust it.  If they
find that it is bad, they will distrust it.  Because of the image
of LC, they might be more inclined to trust it, but, in fact, LC
_would_ _not_ _be_ any more reliable.

At least, that's my opinion.  Magnus is free to post his own
view, if he pleases.  (And, for those who are good at drawing
wrong conclusions from imcomplete information, a silence on
his part would not mean agreement, nor disagreement.)

--
Lars.Wirzenius@helsinki.fi  (finger wirzeniu@klaava.helsinki.fi)
Humans are unreliable, computers are non-deterministically reliable.

------------------------------

From: sph@ihlpe.ATT.COM (na6440800-Hill)
Subject: tsx-11 on CDROM?
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1993 18:38:18 GMT


I have heard of a Linux CDROM out there that contains a 
snapshot of the tsx-11 archives.  I looked in the 
distribution-howto, and in everything in the "advertisments" 
directory on tsx-11.  Does anyone have this CDROM and 
know where I can get it?  It seems like it would be 
a _LOT_ better than a CD with just sls and slackware.

Stephen P. Hill
sph@uscbu.ih.att.com
or
sph@ihlpe.ih.att.com


------------------------------

From: Renee.Teunissen@freudsys.iaf.nl (Renee Teunissen)
Subject: terminal specs needed
Date: 13 Dec 93  17:53:53 EST


Hi,

Just a few weeks ago I bought two TeleVideo termnials (model tvi955 and one looks like a 924) at a dumpstore, but the (statndard) linux termcap entries do not work well. Can anyone help me with the termcap entries of these terminals or konws an (email) address where I can get the terminal specs..

 
Regards,
, __
|__)
| \ enee.

---

------------------------------

From: peyton@meaddata.com (Peyton Reed)
Subject: Re: _Real_ hackers ...
Date: 15 Dec 1993 18:27:17 GMT

In article <CI1Cwu.4IK@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, doolitt@cebaf4.cebaf.gov (Larry Doolittle) writes:
|> In article <2eikok$o55@fitz.TC.Cornell.EDU>,
|> elan@tasha.cheme.cornell.edu (Elan Feingold) writes:
|> > 
|> > Real hackers debug by listening to the interferance generated by the
|> > running microprocessor on their FM radio.
|>                                   ^^^^^^^^
|> > 
|> > elan
|> 
|> You mean AM.  You don't get anything from FM radios.
|> And you have to tune the AM radio between bands.
|> I am not sure this trick works any more.  It used
|> to work best when the radio was on top of the core
|> memory unit - we don't have that very often any more :-(
|> 
|> I sure hope someone is archiving this thread.
|> 
|>            - Larry Doolittle   doolittle@cebaf.gov

Yep - on 6-channel paper tape - Friden format.

---
Peyton Reed                   We have met           (513) 865-6800 x4733
Mead Data Central             the enemy,              Server Operability
P.O. Box 933                and they is us.          peyton@meaddata.com
Dayton, Ohio  45401             -- Pogo        ...!uunet!meaddata!peyton

------------------------------

From: carlb@inex.com (Carl Boernecke)
Subject: Re: Q: Internal modem and Linux
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1993 19:35:51 GMT

cdent@yod.honors.indiana.edu (NetDog) writes:
>--){@ "Svein" == Svein Terland <terland@ugle.runit.sintef.no> writes:
>    Svein> By the way, what`s a good com-program for Linux.

>I use kermit while not in X and Seyon in X.

Kermit?  Only thing Kermit is good for is Mrs. Piggy's attitude.
Join the 90's, and leave Barney Rubble behind.  Use 'pcomm' or
'minicom'.

(Heh, do '*real* hackers' just pick up the phone and start talking
to the modem on the other end?  I'd think a '*real* hacker' could
transmit data verbally... *grin*)

-- 
-- Carl Boernecke (carlb@inex.com)
   "I spilled Spot Remover on my dog.  Now he's gone."

------------------------------

From: mdw@cs.cornell.edu (Matt Welsh)
Subject: Re: not a Linux Consortium
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1993 18:38:52 GMT

In article <2enk72$d1m@klaava.Helsinki.FI> wirzeniu@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Lars Wirzenius) writes:
>The only difference between the Distribution HOWTO and LC is
>that the DH doesn't have a (to repeat myself) pompous, official-looking
>(but completely unofficial) name or image.  If people find that
>the information in the DH is good, they will trust it.  If they
>find that it is bad, they will distrust it.

Magnus and I are going to rework the Distribution-HOWTO into a "Linux
Buyer's Guide". This will more or less contain information on all
mail-order Linux services. It will also contain reviews of each
distribution, whether available via FTP or mail order. Therefore,
we'll be splitting up the "Distributions" from the "Distributors".
We'll rate the software as the software itself, and then list
distributors for the software in a seperate section. 

Again, this is juat a document that Magnus and I are putting together,
based on the current DH. We'll solicit help from volunteers if needed,
but I don't see any reason to give the "group" a name. 

The Buyer's Guide will be the kind of thing that's available on the
Net (posted as a HOWTO) as well as available off of the Net---we're
hoping to get UNIX magazines interested in printing it. (According to
Magnus, at least one is.) 

mdw
-- 
"Do you want to be Finnish? Sure, we all do!"

------------------------------

From: jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost)
Crossposted-To: alt.folklore.computers,alt.religion.kibology,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,alt.fan.mike-dahmus
Subject: Re: Windows emulation was Re: Microsoft Invented Inferior Personal C
Date: 15 Dec 1993 21:55:15 GMT

craig@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Craig Lewis) writes:
>In article <2eme98$g6h@trane.uninett.no> hta@uninett.no (Harald T. Alvestrand) writes:
>>

>[snip]

>>And: Lots of Windows applications call *none* of them.
>>Windows is a tidier environment than DOS, any day, according to the book.
>>

>Then why does Windows crash at least once a session?  I've been using DOS 
>since 3.31 was new, and I've had DOS 4.0 crash on me once.

Nobody said anything about "well-written."

jim frost
jimf@centerline.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1993 07:32:00 MET
From: scoti@p46.keru.chg.imp.com (Enrico Scotoni)
Subject: _Real_ hackers ...

 >   What a bunch of rubbish. You *REALLY* use a machine? Real
 > hackers use their
 > fingers, since numbers greater than ten are just too much (I'm
 > planning a
 > revolution on computing: what about toes?).

Sorry, but this time I can't resist to drop in into this silly thread:

Keep in mind that you have an actual address range of 1 KB with 10 fingers (2
** 10 - 1). So what a immense address range adding your toes (2 ** 20 - 1 ==
1MB). Doesn't this remind you of something: Intel already invented this years
ago, when they introduced the 8088 (10 finger and 10 toes) CPU.
:-)
Enrico

---

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1993 08:48:00 MET
From: scoti@p46.keru.chg.imp.com (Enrico Scotoni)
Subject: sendmail, smail, tin, etc. etc.

Hi all,

My system was until now alone and without any users (execept myself).

Now I try to install linux on a pc at work where it will be networked and will
have real users. So up to now there was no need for me to incorporate any
mailing SW into my linux. This will change. I've read the H2EMAIL but it even
confused me more: As I understand I need some mailing SW which does the actual
work, additionally I need some end user SW which allows people to actually read
and write mail. For news I need additionally a newsreader ?? So far so (more or
less) clear. The question is: There are lots of different packages out there
and I would like to know the pro's and con's of those. So please help me to
decide which SW to install.

thanx in advance

Enrico

---

------------------------------

From: xjam@fir.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Brian F. Dennis)
Subject: Re: Lisp anyone?  How about CMU Lisp?  Garnet?
Date: 15 Dec 1993 20:44:02 GMT

The CMU guys have consistently claimed that porting CMU Common Lisp to a
CISC architecture would be a real drag and nobody's been motivated enough
to do it. The runtime is probably not that big a deal since Linux has (?) a
real mmap. However, getting Python to deal with the 486 might be a problem.

People have been running Garnet in CLISP. That's probably a better bet than
CMU CL.

SCM has been ported to Linux and works fabulously. MIT CScheme is probably
not far off if not here now.
--
xjam@cork.Berkeley.EDU          Fiiiive Thousand Boomin Watts...... -The JBeez

They can't come on and play me in prime time,       | Free Millipede coin op
Cause I know the time, cause I'm gettin' mine.      | and House music at my
I get on the mix late in the night... -Public Enemy | place! Drop by sometime.


------------------------------

From: steve@crc.ricoh.COM (Stephen R. Savitzky)
Subject: Re: Who is the typical Linux user?
Date: 15 Dec 1993 22:26:18 GMT

In article <1993Dec15.010141.22548@ultb.isc.rit.edu> dcm6986@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (Dan Mattrazzo) writes:

   And also a fact that I have a 10-year old niece and she can easily
   use a computer and do DOS commands and other stuff.  But the point
   is I just don't see her sitting down with 50 or so floppies,
   and start backing up her drive, repartitioning her disk, installing
   Linux, configuring Xwindows, modifying her csh.cshrc, etc. etc.

   I think what has already been said that the 'usual user' of Linux
   is a technical type holds true.  Installing Linux and administering
   it is not for the faint at heart.

There's a difference between the "usual user" of a system, and the
person who *administers* that system.  I'm the usual user of the
DECstation on my desk, but I don't administer it and wouldn't want to.
Similarly, I administer the Linux machine I have at home, but my
8-year-old daughter uses it more hours a day than I or my wife, so
she's the *usual* user.

Actually, I found Linux a simpler install than Windows 3.1, not
counting the partitioning (and even that was pretty simple).  Network
configuration, admittedly, is a bitch, but once it's done the
day-to-day work of backups and updates is a snap.  If a system came
with Linux pre-installed, I don't see a non-wizard having much trouble
running it.
--
\ --Steve Savitzky--  \    343 Leigh Ave   \ REAL HACKERS USE AN AXE!
 \ steve@crc.ricoh.COM \ San Jose, CA 95128 \     Free Cyberia!
  \ w: 415-496-5710     \   h:408-294-6492   \ 
   \_________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------


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