Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #441
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Fri, 17 Dec 93 01:13:18 EST

Linux-Misc Digest #441, Volume #1                Fri, 17 Dec 93 01:13:18 EST

Contents:
  SURVEY: Graphics card benchmarks under XFree86 (Farrell McKay)
  Re: Linux Counter Update (4151 users registered (Greg Wilkins)
  Compiling Mosaic 2.1 (hamer kenneth)
  Re: filesystem & swap decisions for a new system (Thomas Aaron Insel)
  Re: Yet another benchmark results.. (gdn@waikato.ac.nz)
  Re: Microsoft Invented Inferior Personal Computing  (Chris Marriott)
  Re: Linux Compat. Ethernet Adapter (laptop) (Donald J. Becker)
  Re: Windows emulation  was Re: Microsoft Invented Inferior Personal C (Dan Ts'o)
  Re: Xwindows Terminal (Kelly Murray)
  Re: Debate: Time to Remove SLS From archive (DAVID L. JOHNSON)
  OAK VG7700 Rev A Supported under LGX X11 (nigel)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.windows.x.i386unix,comp.benchmarks,comp.os.linux.help,aus.computers.linux
From: fbm@newt.phys.unsw.oz.au (Farrell McKay)
Subject: SURVEY: Graphics card benchmarks under XFree86
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1993 21:58:08 GMT

Archive-name: xfree86-benchmarks
Version: $Id: xfree86-benchmarks,v 1.2 1993/12/16 03:08:07 fbm Exp $

These are the first results from a survey of graphics cards under XFree86.

The idea of the survey is to collect and compile a comprehensive set
of benchmark results, obtained by running "xbench" on all the main
graphics cards.  Some people don't believe in benchmarks, some do.
For those that do, read on!

The results received are in two sections - summary and detail.
The summary results distill the essence of the survey into single line
entries.  The entries are grouped by XFree86 release number, and ranked
in decreasing 'xstone' order (last column) within each group.
Ranking by xstones is a bit arbitrary.  It is instructive to examine
all the other columns too.

The detailed entries are listed in the same order as the summary entries.

This survey is still in its early days.  We need *lots* more results
before it will become useful.  Figures for the other XFree86 servers
(e.g. XF86_Mono, XF86_8514, XF86_Mach32 etc.), other display cards,
and other resolutions are still missing.  Hopefully this posting will
stimulate more XFree86 users into action.

If you use XFree86 on a 386 or 486 system, you can help us out.
Get yourself a copy of xbench, run it on your machine, fill in the blank
form at the end of this posting, and mail it back to me.  The xbench
*summary* figures are probably enough for this exercise.  I will
summarize and post the results as they become available.

XBench is available by ftp from hundreds of archive sites around the world,
e.g.
        pith.uoregon.edu:/pub/src/X11/xbench.tar.gz
        ftp.physics.su.oz.au:/xbench/xbench.tar.gz
        lth.se:/pub/netnews/sources.x/volume3/xbench/...

and many more (check out archie for your nearest site).
It includes instructions about compiling and running the program,
and some example results.  To run the benchmark, read the README file,
edit the script.run file, then type:
        xset s off                      (turn off the screen saver)
        xbench -ask < script.run > results/YOURFILE     (go get a coffee)
        awk -f scripts/xstones.awk < results/YOURFILE

Lets see who has the fastest, hottest XFree86 system around.

Farrell.
--
Farrell McKay.     Email: fbm@newt.phys.unsw.edu.au      Phone: +61 2 339-3683
========================== Summary Results =====================================

-- Hware --- XFree Res Dot Display card             ln fll blt arc txt cplx xstn
CPU-Clk  Mem Srvr  P V Clk                          ---------- 000's -----------

========================== XFree86 2.0 =========================================
486DX2-66 16 S3    B B 85  #9GXE Level 12           412  81  65 2872 196 157 130
486DX-33  16 S3    A A 110 Actix Ultra+             203  71  65 3056 132  84 102
486DX-40   8 S3    E C 40  Taiwan VLB S3-805        299  56  48 3897 142  91  92
486DX-33  16 S3    D D 75  Orchid Fahrenht VA       252  45  40 3150 118  85  76
486DX2-66 16 S3            STB Powergraph VL-24     337  50  42 3678  45 106  62
486DX2-66 32 S3    D D 75  Orchid Fahrenht 1280+    232  32  27 2713  94  65  56
486DX2-66  4 SVGA  D D 65  Cirrus Logic 5426        116  13   7 1572  94  25  21
486DX-33   8       D D 65  Trident 8900C             55   3   2  582  39   4   5

========================== XFree86 1.3 =========================================
486DX2-66 16 SVGA  E E 36  Boca Rsrch ET4000         84   4   3 1118  85   7   7

========================== XFree86 1.2 =========================================
486DX-33   8 SVGA  D D 60  Diam. Speedstar+          86   9   4 1380  83  13  13

Key to resolutions (P=Physical, V=Virtual)

A = 1280x1024
B = 1152x900
C = 1024x1024
D = 1024x768
E = 800x600

========================== Detailed Results ====================================
CPU (386/486 SX/DX)     : 486DX2-66MHz
Motherboard Memory      : 16 MBytes

Card Vendor             : Number Nine
Card Model              : GXE Level 12
Card Bus (ISA/EISA/VLB) : VLB
Chipset                 : S3C928
Video Memory            : 3 MBytes
Memory Type (DRAM/VRAM) : 2 MBytes VRAM, 1MByte DRAM
Memory Speed            : 70ns
Clock Chip              : ICD2061A
RAMDAC                  : Bt485

Operating system        : Unix SysV R4
XFree86 release, server : 2.0, XF86_S3

Physical resolution     : 1152x900
Virtual resolution      : 1152x900
Dot-clock used          : 85 MHz

XBench lines            :  412357
XBench fills            :   80876
XBench blits            :   64567
XBench arcs             : 2872330
XBench texts            :  196281
XBench complex          :  157058
XBench xstones          :  129705

Submitted by            : edhall@rand.org (Ed Hall)
Date stamp              : Wed, 8 Dec 93 08:22:16 PST
================================================================================
CPU (386/486 SX/DX)     : 486DX-33MHz
Motherboard Memory      : 16 MBytes

Card Vendor             : Actix
Card Model              : Ultra+
Card Bus (ISA/EISA/VLB) : ISA
Chipset                 : S3-928
Video Memory            : 2 MBytes
Memory Type (DRAM/VRAM) : VRAM
Memory Speed            : 90ns
Clock Chip              : 110 MHz
RAMDAC                  : AT&T

Operating system        : Linux, 0.99 pl14
XFree86 release, server : 2.0, XF86_S3

Physical resolution     : 1280x1024
Virtual resolution      : 1280x1024
Dot-clock used          : 110 Mhz

XBench lines            :  202906
XBench fills            :   70844
XBench blits            :   65329
XBench arcs             : 3055965
XBench texts            :  132187
XBench complex          :   83529
XBench xstones          :  101825

Submitted by            : kem@zoyd.prl.ufl.edu (Kelly Murray)
Date stamp              : Wed, 08 Dec 1993 13:38:49 
================================================================================
CPU (386/486 SX/DX)     : AMD 486DX-40MHz
Motherboard Memory      : 8 MBytes

Card Vendor             : Taiwan
Card Model              : Windows Accelerator
Card Bus (ISA/EISA/VLB) : VLB
Chipset                 : S3-805
Video Memory            : 1 MByte
Memory Type (DRAM/VRAM) : DRAM
Memory Speed            : 45 ns
Clock Chip              : 9335S
RAMDAC                  : ATT20C491-11

Operating system        : Linux 0.99 pl13
XFree86 release, server : 2.0, XF86_S3

Physical resolution     : 800x600
Virtual resolution      : 1024x1024
Dot-clock used          : 40 MHz

XBench lines            :  299064
XBench fills            :   55999
XBench blits            :   48486
XBench arcs             : 3897382
XBench texts            :  141625
XBench complex          :   91437
XBench xstones          :   92000

Submitted by            : burkhard@radix2.mpi-stuttgart.mpg.de (Armin Burkhardt)
Date stamp              : Thu, 9 Dec 1993 09:51:21
================================================================================
CPU (386/486 SX/DX)     : 486DX-33MHz
Motherboard Memory      : 16 MBytes 70 ns

Card Vendor             : Orchid
Card Model              : Fahrenheit VA/VLB
Card Bus (ISA/EISA/VLB) : VLB
Chipset                 : S3 86C805
Video Memory            : 1 MByte
Memory Type (DRAM/VRAM) : DRAM
Memory Speed            : 60 ns
Clock Chip              : ?
RAMDAC                  : AT&T 16M colors

Operating system        : FreeBSD 1.0.2
XFree86 release, server : 2.0, XF86_S3

Physical resolution     : 1024x768
Virtual resolution      : 1024x768
Dot-clock used          : 75 MHz

XBench lines            :  252441
XBench fills            :   44627
XBench blits            :   40420
XBench arcs             : 3150260
XBench texts            :  117562
XBench complex          :   84967
XBench xstones          :   76182

Submitted by            : Ollivier.Robert@keltia.frmug.fr.net (Ollivier Robert)
Date stamp              : Thu, 9 Dec 1993 22:52:37
================================================================================
CPU (386/486 SX/DX)     : 486DX2-66MHz
Motherboard Memory      : 16 MBytes (256k Cache 20ns)

Card Vendor             : STB
Card Model              : Powergraph VL-24
Card Bus (ISA/EISA/VLB) : VLB
Chipset                 : S3 805
Video Memory            : 1 MByte
Memory Type (DRAM/VRAM) : DRAM
Memory Speed            : 60ns
Clock Chip              :
RAMDAC                  :

Operating system        : Linux 0.99 pl13
XFree86 release, server : 2.0, XF86_S3

Physical resolution     :
Virtual resolution      :
Dot-clock used          :

XBench lines            :  337308
XBench fills            :   50231
XBench blits            :   41814
XBench arcs             : 3678242
XBench texts            :   44687
XBench complex          :  105882
XBench xstones          :   62057

Submitted by            : suettpet@sun1.ruf.uni-freiburg.de (Peter Suetterlin)
Date stamp              : Wed, 8 Dec 93 12:13:38
================================================================================
CPU(386/486SX/DX)       : 486DX2-66MHz
Motherboard Memory      : 32MB

Card Vendor             : Orchid
Card Model              : Fahrenheit 1280 Plus VLB
Card Bus (ISA/EISA/VLB) : VLB
Chipset                 : S3-805
Video Memory            : 1 MByte
Memory Type (DRAM/VRAM) : DRAM
Memory Speed            : 60ns
Clock Chip              : Chrontel 9303 (?)
RAMDAC                  : AT&T 20C490-80

Operating system        : Linux 0.99 pl14
XFree86 release, server : 2.0, XF86_S3

Physical resolution     : 1024x768
Virtual resolution      : 1024x768
Dot-clock used          : 75 MHz

XBench lines            :  231510
XBench fills            :   32395
XBench blits            :   26884
XBench arcs             : 2712902
XBench texts            :   93843
XBench complex          :   64836
XBench xstones          :   55959

Submitted by            : jvc@la.tis.com (Jeff Cook)
Date stamp              : Mon, 13 Dec 93 12:55:20
================================================================================
CPU (386/486 SX/DX)     : 486DX2-66MHz
Motherboard Memory      : 4 MBytes

Card Vendor             : Cirrus Logic
Card Model              : CLGD 5426 (Generic)
Card Bus (ISA/EISA/VLB) : VLB
Chipset                 : CLGD 5426
Video Memory            : 1 MByte
Memory Type (DRAM/VRAM) : DRAM?
Memory Speed            :
Clock Chip              :
RAMDAC                  :

Operating system        : Linux 0.99 pl13
XFree86 release, server : 2.0, XF86_S3

Physical resolution     : 1024x768
Virtual resolution      : 1024x768
Dot-clock used          : 65 MHz

XBench lines            :  116303
XBench fills            :   12852
XBench blits            :    7176
XBench arcs             : 1572412
XBench texts            :   93500
XBench complex          :   25228
XBench xstones          :   20706

Submitted by            : mdw@cs.cornell.edu (Matt Welsh)
Date stamp              : Wed, 8 Dec 93 01:59:42
================================================================================
CPU (386/486 SX/DX)     : 486DX-33MHz
Motherboard Memory      : 8 MBytes

Card Vendor             : Trident
Card Model              : 8900C
Card Bus (ISA/EISA/VLB) : ISA
Chipset                 : Trident
Video Memory            : 1 MByte
Memory Type (DRAM/VRAM) : DRAM
Memory Speed            : 100ns
Clock Chip              : 
RAMDAC                  : 

Operating system        : Linux 0.99 pl14
XFree86 release, server : 2.0, Trident?

Physical resolution     : 1024x768
Virtual resolution      : 1024x768
Dot-clock used          : 65 MHz

XBench lines            :  54874
XBench fills            :   2557
XBench blits            :   1996
XBench arcs             : 582180
XBench texts            :  39375
XBench complex          :   4183
XBench xstones          :   5133

Submitted by            : mjj@emjay.apana.org.au (Matthew Jackson)
Date stamp              : Sun, 12 Dec 1993 21:38:30
================================================================================
CPU (386/486 SX/DX)     : 486DX2-66MHz
Motherboard Memory      : 16 MBytes

Card Vendor             : Boca Research
Card Model              : SVGA
Card Bus (ISA/EISA/VLB) : ISA
Chipset                 : ET4000
Video Memory            : 512 KBytes
Memory Type (DRAM/VRAM) : DRAM
Memory Speed            :
Clock Chip              :
RAMDAC                  :

Operating system        : Linux 0.99 pl11
XFree86 release, server : 1.3, XF86_S3

Physical resolution     : 800x600
Virtual resolution      : 800x600
Dot-clock used          : 36 MHz

XBench lines            :   84191
XBench fills            :    3926
XBench blits            :    2661
XBench arcs             : 1118073
XBench texts            :   85250
XBench complex          :    6732
XBench xstones          :    7474

Submitted by            : msf%skaro@as.arizona.edu (Michael Fulbright)
Date stamp              : Wed, 8 Dec 1993 01:47:55
================================================================================
CPU (386/486 SX/DX)     : 486DX-33MHz
Motherboard Memory      : 8 meg

Card Vendor             : Diamond (alas!)
Card Model              : Speedsar+
Card Bus (ISA/EISA/VLB) : ISA
Chipset                 : ET4000
Video Memory            : 1 meg
Memory Type (DRAM/VRAM) : VRAM?
Memory Speed            :
Clock Chip              :
RAMDAC                  :

Physical resolution     : 1024x768
Virtual resolution      : 1024x768
Dot-clock used          : 60

Operating system        : Linux 0.99 pl10
XFree86 release, server : 1.2, SVGA

XBench lines            :   86043
XBench fills            :    9259
XBench blits            :    4037
XBench arcs             : 1380498
XBench texts            :   83187
XBench complex          :   12875
XBench xstones          :   12880

Submitted by            : dlj0@Lehigh.EDU (David L. Johnson)
Date stamp              : Sun, 12 Dec 1993 21:37:58
================================================================================
CPU (386/486 SX/DX)     :
CPU Clock Speed         :
Motherboard Memory      :

Card Vendor             :
Card Model              :
Card Bus (ISA/EISA/VLB) :
Chipset                 :
Video Memory            :
Memory Type (DRAM/VRAM) :
Memory Speed            :
Clock Chip              :
RAMDAC                  :

Operating system, vern  :
XFree86 release, server :

Physical resolution     :
Virtual resolution      :
Dot-clock used          :

XBench lines            :
XBench fills            :
XBench blits            :
XBench arcs             :
XBench texts            :
XBench complex          :
XBench xstones          :

Submitted by            :
Date stamp              :
================================================================================

------------------------------

From: gregw@tansu.com.au (Greg Wilkins)
Subject: Re: Linux Counter Update (4151 users registered
Date: 14 Dec 1993 04:50:14 GMT
Reply-To: gregw@tansu.com.au


Harald,


Your latest Linux Counter is interesting, but you left out the info I
sent you on the 3 Linux box's in Antartica.  Ie. Finland is not the top of the
list for Linux to population!-)

-gregw



------------------------------

From: khamer@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (hamer kenneth)
Subject: Compiling Mosaic 2.1
Date: 17 Dec 1993 00:22:22 GMT

I am trying to compile Mosaic-2.1 under Linux0.99.14, with gcc 2.4.5 and
libc-4.4.4, and the Metrolink Motif libs. Everything seems to go fine
until link time, when I get a whole slew of errors like 

HTFormat.c:473 (../libwww2/libwww.a(HTFormat.o)) Undefined symbol
_HTCheckActiveIcon referenced from text segment

All of these error have to do with libwww.a, and it seems mabye ever
y function in that library is generating an error.  

If someone else has experienced this, please tell me how to get past it. 
If someone out there got things to compile right, could you send me the
Makefile(s) you used to do it?

-Ken
-- 
______________________________________________________________________________

Kenneth L. Hamer
khamer@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu

------------------------------

From: tinsel@uiuc.edu (Thomas Aaron Insel)
Subject: Re: filesystem & swap decisions for a new system
Date: 17 Dec 1993 00:23:07 GMT
Reply-To: tinsel@uiuc.edu

miverson@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Michael A Iverson) writes:

>      both file systems are nearly equivalent, but I'd use
>      ext2fs because 1) it has a larger installed base, so
>      upgrades & improvements will appear faster, and 2)
>      I think ext2fs will give a little better performance
>      (However, I think it would be hard to tell the difference)

And, ext2fs will keep track when partitions are cleanly unmounted so
you can do a proper fsck when (and only when) the machine comes back
up after a crash.
-- 
Thomas Insel (tinsel@uiuc.edu)
  s-mail: 810 West Illinois Street, Urbana, IL 61801

------------------------------

From: gdn@waikato.ac.nz
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
Subject: Re: Yet another benchmark results..
Date: 17 Dec 93 13:17:11 +1300

In article <CI3A09.FGL@Saigon.COM>, twc@Saigon.COM (Ted Chan) writes:
> From article <1993Dec09.025654.12591@ksmith.com>, by keith@ksmith.com (Keith Smith):
>> 
>>      Computer                             Time spent
>> 
>> 486DX2-66 EISA/VL 16Mb RAM
>> running Linux (Slackware 1.1.0).
>> gcc compiler.
>> Single user                               27 sec.
>> 
>> Uh, Uh,  No way,  I got 46 seconds under Linux, and SCO, on a 486DX2/66
>> E/V with 20MB/12MB RAM.  There is no way this box runs almost TWICE as
>> fast as TWO different machines of mine, with different brand
>> motherboards.
> 
> Seems reasonable to me.  I got 31 sec. with a 486DX2/66 running UnixWare 1.0
> with X up with a bunch of clients going (but single user).  GCC 2.5.6,
> CFLAGS ='-O2 -m486'.  I would expect something leaner like Linux to be
> faster still....
> 
> 
> --twc
Just a little note to people here on *my* machine when i compiled the benchmark
without 486 otimisations on it went faster.

gcc -o bench.exe bench.cc -O2           = 41 seconds
gcc -o bench.exe bench.cc -O2 - m486    = 43 seconds

Machine AMD486DX40+10 load was constant for each test (or as constant as is
posible) Also this is under OS/2 2.1 using gcc for OS/2.



------------------------------

Crossposted-To: alt.folklore.computers,alt.religion.kibology,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,alt.fan.mike-dahmus
From: chris@chrism.demon.co.uk (Chris Marriott)
Subject: Re: Microsoft Invented Inferior Personal Computing 
Reply-To: chris@chrism.demon.co.uk
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1993 21:10:52 +0000

In article <CI3G21.Ats@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> craig@sage.cc.purdue.edu writes:

>In article <2eme98$g6h@trane.uninett.no> hta@uninett.no (Harald T. Alvestrand)
> writes:
>>
>
>[snip]
>
>>And: Lots of Windows applications call *none* of them.
>>Windows is a tidier environment than DOS, any day, according to the book.
>>
>
>Then why does Windows crash at least once a session?  I've been using DOS 
>since 3.31 was new, and I've had DOS 4.0 crash on me once.
>

My experience isn't at all similar to yours, Craig. I'm a professional
Windows programmer, and I also write Windows shareware programs for fun
(OK, so call me a masochist :-) ). Sure, my development software
often crashes, but I honestly cannot remember the last time that a crash
brought the system down. Set up properly, Windows seems a VERY stable
environment indeed.

Chris
-- 
==========================================================================
| Chris Marriott, Warrington, UK      | Author of "SkyMap" shareware     |
| Internet: chris@chrism.demon.co.uk  | astronomy program for Windows.   |
| CompuServe: 100113,1140             | Mail me for details!             |
|       Windows, C/C++ consultancy undertaken, anywhere in the world.    |
==========================================================================
 

------------------------------

From: becker@super.org (Donald J. Becker)
Subject: Re: Linux Compat. Ethernet Adapter (laptop)
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1993 02:23:55 GMT

In article <CI471r.4HI@news.udel.edu>, Brad Cain <brad@bach.udel.edu> wrote:
>I have a laptop that i'm running linux on.  I would like to 
>know if there are any "linux compatible" parallel port
>ethernet adapters.  If anyone has any experience with using
>linux networking on a laptop, please e-mail me.  thanks

The standard Linux kernel comes with a driver for the D-Link DE-600 pocket
adaptor.  They are available in the US for around $250-$300.

I have a new driver in alpha test (call "ATP") for an OEMed generic pocket
adaptor.  I expect to have this driver released with pl15.  I think the alpha
test announcement should still be around in c.o.l.a.

The pocket adaptor itself is available in the U.S. for $130 (qnty. 10+) to
$150 (qnty. 1), imported by AT-Lan-Tec, 1-301-948-7070.    Ask for the model
that works with Linux, or ask for "Vincent Bono" in tech support.  BTW, the
adaptor has both 10baseT and BNC connections! 

In the Netherlands a compatible adaptor is sold under the name SHI-TEC
PE-NET/CT, and sells for about $125.
[[ ref. Gerrit Nieuwenhuizen <nieuwhzn@dxgsia.cern.ch>:
        Vendor was Megasellers, they state that they do not sell to
        private persons, but I just gave them the name of my home
        institute. No questions asked.
                Megasellers
                Vianen
                The Netherlands
        They always advertise in Dutch computer magazines.
 ]]

In Germany (I think) a similar adaptor comes as a no-brand-name product.
[[Danny ter Haar <danny@uwalt.hacktic.nl>:
        Prolan 890b, no brand on the casing, only a roman II
        Since i am a reseller i bought this device for about $130
        including a small wall transformer for the power...
]]

-- 

Donald Becker                                          becker@super.org
IDA Supercomputing Research Center
17100 Science Drive, Bowie MD 20715                        301-805-7482

------------------------------

From: tso@cephalo.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu (Dan Ts'o)
Crossposted-To: alt.folklore.computers,alt.religion.kibology,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,alt.fan.mike-dahmus
Subject: Re: Windows emulation  was Re: Microsoft Invented Inferior Personal C
Date: 16 Dec 1993 23:17:07 GMT

In article <CI5Dwo.2u38@hawnews.watson.ibm.com> miked@vnet.ibm.com (Mike Dahmus) writes:
)Yes, but (and I can't believe I'm defending Windows :+) I *often* locked up
)X-Windows on one system to the point where I had to telnet in from another
)box and kill it. Windows to X-Windows is at least a more accurate (but still
)not very accurate) comparison than Windows to UNIX.

        All of X or just a particular X app ? I've never had all of X crash.
X is just a graphics display server, and, e.g. our X terminals never crash.
But sure certain buggy X apps have lotsa problems, depending on who wrote them.
        In any case, the underlying OS, UNIX, never crashes.

------------------------------

From: kem@prl.ufl.edu (Kelly Murray)
Subject: Re: Xwindows Terminal
Date: 16 Dec 1993 23:21:14 GMT

In article <2ektlb$he3@sbi.sbi.com>, bet@std.sbi.com (Bennett Todd) writes:
|> In article <2e7t55$dpk@snoopy.cis.ufl.edu>, Kelly Murray <kem@prl.ufl.edu> wrote:
|> >Price out that Linux X-Terminal, and you will find that my company can
|> >sell you a real X Terminal for less (15" Color, $983), and you will
|> >avoid the hassle of trying to setup, configure, and maintain a diskless
|> >Linux box, and probably get better performance as well.
|>
|>  [...]
|> 
|> So it isn't correct to say ``Linux completely obsoletes X terminals''. But
|> it also isn't always correct to say ``Linux as an X terminal is a dumb idea;
|> buy a real X terminal instead.''
|> 

I didn't say either (you seem to imply I did, but perhaps you are referring to
something else?)  I said a real X-terminal can be cheaper than Linux,
and is easier to install and maintain.
I didn't say a LinuXTerminal(TM :-) was dumb, but clearly not "great" as I
believe the original poster claimed.

In fact, I highly recommend people use LinuXTerminals instead of real X-terminals
when they use SLIP access (assuming they can deal with the hassle of getting
SLIP working!) In this case, the extra cost of the additional
memory, disk, configuration, and maintenence is well worth it to get the
benefits of general-purpose local processing capability rather than
trying to run everything over a slow serial link.  Maybe I should also
sell systems configured this way too???

If you already have the hardware, it may be a good option, though
lots of the existing PC hardware out there can't do the job.  
I would consider a 8K Xstones VGA 800x600 monochrome system to be an unreasonable
platform for getting any work done in an X environment, but of course,
you're mileage may vary.  Actually, if this is sufficient, I think you can
get a serial-line monochrome X-terminal from Qume that runs the bulk of the
server not locally, but on the host machine for somewhere around $500,
which would still be cheaper than buying a system to run Linux for the job.
To get a reasonable LinuXTerminal, which gets at least 20K
Xstones, and supports 1024x768x256 @ 70Hz, you might need at least a new video card
and more memory, and probably even a better monitor, 
and maybe even a processor upgrade and Ethernet card.
Then you still have a large case cluttering your desk. 

Everyone has different needs and requirements.  A big advantage of running Linux
is that you don't have to buy a whole high-perf system at once.  You can start with
the 800x600 mono system, perhaps using lots of existing equipment
and upgrade components over time. 
While perhaps more costly in the long run, it enables a low-cost entry.

Best of all, though, is if you enjoy hacking.
A LinuXTerminal is great since you get an X-terminal for your 
"real job", and something to play with as well :-)

-- 
-- Kelly Murray  (kem@prl.ufl.edu) 
University of Florida Parallel Research Lab  :: 96-node KSR1, 64-node nCUBE
Send mail to ncx@netcom.com for deals on Actix S3 Video cards:
ISA Actix GE32 1mb: $129, GE32+2mb: $179, Ultra+2mbVram: $299
=========================================================================

------------------------------

From: dlj0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DAVID L. JOHNSON)
Subject: Re: Debate: Time to Remove SLS From archive
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1993 21:33:11 GMT

>
>It seems that Peter (and his wife) have been under a lot of pressure/stress as of 
>late, and he just didn't have the time to do the upgrades (if you want further
>info, I'd suggest that you send him a message about this).
>
I'm sorry to hear this.  Peter, I hope things are easing up now.

>Peter did tell me that he hopes to have SLS 1.05 out by the end of this month,
>barring any other potential delays.  

Great!  I also like SLS -- it has the stuff I want.  I do need to upgrade, 
though, and will wait until SLS is upgraded, if it is coming reasonably soon.

>p.s.  these opinions are my own...and I know that I might be flamed being
>pro-SLS.  However, if the one's who did the complaining would try to take the
>time to collect everything together themselves and try to do a distribution
>of a "working system", they may find that it's not a trivial task...
>
Amen.

>Also, I'm wondering if anyone else took the time to contact Peter to see why
>the SLS release wasn't being updated...instead of griping about it.
>
We've jsut been waiting, not wanting to hassle anyone.  I for one realize how
much work it is to put this together, and I'm willing to be patient with those
who know what they are doing.

>
I hope we'll see a new SLS (1.05??  did I miss 1.04?) soon.

-- 

David L. Johnson                             ID:  dlj0@lehigh.edu
Department of Mathematics
Lehigh University, Bethlehem, PA 18015       Telephone: 215-758-3759 (office)
                                                        215-828-3708 (home)
Linux, the people's unix.

------------------------------

From: nigel@mailserver.aixssc.uk.ibm.com (nigel)
Subject: OAK VG7700 Rev A Supported under LGX X11
Date: 15 Dec 93 11:37:30 GMT



Hi, I've just bought myself a copy of Linux LGX & have to say that I'm
really impressed at how well it compares to /Commercial/ SCO Unix.

Problem though is that I can't work out how to get my Oak VG7700 VGA
adapter to run in anything other than 640x480 monochrome-vga in X11.

In MS Windows (sorry to use bad language on the net) I can get 800x600
no problem so I know that the card is capable of more.

I've tried all of the other supplied drivers without joy. The manual
suggests that there are config files I can play with and that the
/clocks/ value(s) should be changed but I've no idea what to.

My monitor is a Goldstar 1465 SSI that supports the following:

                    H Freq  V Freq
          640x350  31.5KHz   70Hz
          720x400  31.5KHz   70Hz
          640x480  31.5KHz   60Hz
          800x600  35.2KHz   56Hz
         1024x768  35.5KHz   87Hz
          800x600  48.06KHz  72Hz
         1024x768  47.7KHz   60Hz

Can anyone out there tell me what to do to get colour and a decent
X11 screen resolution - I'm stuck...



Thanks in anticipation
g files I can play with and that the
/clocks/ value(s) should be changed but I've no idea what to.

My monitor is a Goldstar 1465 SSI that supports the following:

                    H Freq  V Freq
          640x350  31.5KHz   70Hz
          720x400  31.5KHz   70Hz
          640x480  31.5KHz   60Hz
          800x600  35.2KHz   56Hz
         1024x768  35.5KHz   87Hz
          800x600  48.06KHz  72Hz
         1024x768  47.7KHz   60Hz

Can anyone out there tell me what to do to get colour and a decent
X11 screen resolution - I'm stuck...

Thanks and apologies for /possibly/ reposting, I'm having probs with my reader

Nigel Wale  (nigel@aixssc.uk.ibm.com)

------------------------------


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