Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #443
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Fri, 17 Dec 93 10:13:23 EST

Linux-Misc Digest #443, Volume #1                Fri, 17 Dec 93 10:13:23 EST

Contents:
  Linux in a hospital? (Kai Petzke)
  *** PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE POSTING *** (misc-2.07) (Ian Jackson)
  Re: What is JAM? (Re: What tools would you u (Guru Aleph_Null)
  Problem on using lprm and lpc (Alan Leung)
  Re: _Real_ hackers ... (Kai Petzke)
  Re: Windows emulation  was Re: Microsoft Invented Inferior Personal C (SillyWiz)
  Re: Problem on using lprm and lpc (Dietmar Lembke)
  help with gzip please (barry tighe)
  Re: Linux / DOS boot (Tarang Patel)
  Re: Windows emulation was Re: Microsoft Invented Inferior Personal C (Mark A. Davis)
  Re: Windows emulation was Re: Microsoft Invented Inferior Personal C (Mark A. Davis)
  Re: Microsoft Invented Inferior Personal Computing  (Mark A. Davis)
  Re: Xwindows Terminal (Mark A. Davis)
  Re: Linux in a hospital? (Sarr J. Blumson)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: wpp@marie.physik.tu-berlin.de (Kai Petzke)
Subject: Linux in a hospital?
Date: 17 Dec 1993 11:10:48 GMT

Hi,

almost one year ago, I was asked by a doctor, to write a low cost
database application for her institute.  Because the number of
tuples will be low (approx. 10000 / year), I voted for Linux as
operating system and Ingres as database.

But now, the administration of that hospital brings up lots of
points against Linux.  Its networking is unreliable, it is written
by students, it isn't even out in 1.0, and even, if it was version
1.0, they never would buy a version 1.0, etc., etc.

They say, I should use SCO and Informix instead.

But I don't want to rewrite my X interface (which currently uses
the Athena widget set, which some people said, is not included
into SCO), and I do not want to rewrite my database interface
from QUEL to SQL, too.

My question goes: Do you use Linux in a hospital?  Did you
experience networking or reliability problems?  Did they go away
after upgrading to new versions?  If you also use SCO, how often
does Linux crash relative to SCO?

Thanks for any answer.
--
Kai
wpp@marie.physik.tu-berlin.de
Advertisement by Microsoft in a well-known German magazine:
        If you don't like our programmes, then make your own ones.
However, they expect you to use Microsoft products for this -:)

------------------------------

From: ijackson@nyx.cs.du.edu (Ian Jackson)
Subject: *** PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE POSTING *** (misc-2.07)
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1993 11:03:01 GMT

Please do not post questions to comp.os.linux.misc - read on for details of
which groups you should read and post to.

Please do not crosspost anything between different groups of the comp.os.linux
hierarchy.  See Matt Welsh's introduction to the hierarchy, posted weekly.

If you have a question about Linux you should get and read the Linux Frequently
Asked Questions with Answers list from sunsite.unc.edu, in /pub/Linux/docs, or
from another Linux FTP site.  It is also posted periodically to c.o.l.announce.

In particular, read the question `You still haven't answered my question!'
The FAQ will refer you to the Linux HOWTOs (more detailed descriptions of
particular topics) found in the HOWTO directory in the same place.

Then you should consider posting to comp.os.linux.help - not
comp.os.linux.misc.

Note that X Windows related questions should go to comp.windows.x.i386unix, and
that non-Linux-specific Unix questions should go to comp.unix.questions.
Please read the FAQs for these groups before posting - look on rtfm.mit.edu in
/pub/usenet/news.answers/Intel-Unix-X-faq and .../unix-faq.

Only if you have a posting that is not more appropriate for one of the other
Linux groups - ie it is not a question, not about the future development of
Linux, not an announcement or bug report and not about system administration -
should you post to comp.os.linux.misc.


Comments on this posting are welcomed - please email me !
--
Ian Jackson  <ijackson@nyx.cs.du.edu>  (urgent email: iwj10@phx.cam.ac.uk)
2 Lexington Close, Cambridge, CB4 3LS, England;  phone: +44 223 64238

------------------------------

From: spj@ukelele.gcr.com (Guru Aleph_Null)
Subject: Re: What is JAM? (Re: What tools would you u
Date: 17 Dec 1993 01:54:43 -0500

In article <1993Dec16.211124.8615@pe1chl.ampr.org>,
Rob Janssen <rob@pe1chl.ampr.org> wrote:
>In <1993Dec15.155647.18129@nenuphar.saclay.cea.fr> basile@soleil.serma.cea.fr (Basile STARYNKEVITCH) writes:

>By now it is clear to all of us that one should be more explicit when
>referring to a piece of software than only using a three-letter acronym...

What do you bet it has roots in MS-DOS's 8.3 filenames... *.JAM files, anyone?

I think I counted six different "JAM" programs, and by now, I have no
idea what the question was about in the first place! :)

>Rob
>-- 
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>| Rob Janssen                | AMPRnet:   rob@pe1chl.ampr.org           |
>| e-mail: pe1chl@rabo.nl     | AX.25 BBS: PE1CHL@PI8UTR.#UTR.NLD.EU     |
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------


-- 
.---------------------------------------.  \    //~\ ~|~ |~~\
|Guru Aleph-Null     spj@ukelele.gcr.com|%  \  /|   | |  |   |
`---------------------------------------'#   \/  \_/ _|_ |__/
 %#######################################%   Where Prohibited.

------------------------------

From: aleung@muug.mb.ca (Alan Leung)
Subject: Problem on using lprm and lpc
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1993 10:44:12 GMT

I have a problem on using lprm and lpc. the following is the error I got..
I spend couple days and can't solve the problem..

ps -ux:
. 
. 
root         38  0.0  1.5   68  232  ? S    04:25   0:00 /usr/etc/lpd
. 
. 
for sure lpd is up and running

when I run lprm:
lprm: lp: cannot access spool directory

on using lpc:
lpc> restart all
lp:
        Warning: daemon (pid 43) not killed
lp:
lpc: connect: Invalid argument
        couldn't start daemon

printcap:
lp:lp=/dev/lp1:sd=/usr/spool/lp1:lf=/usr/adm/lpd-errs

the files inside /usr/spool/lp1
-rw-r--r--   1 root     root            3 Dec 17 04:25 lock
the contain of the lock is 43

the files inside /use/spool/lpd
-rw-r--r--   1 root     root            3 Dec 17 04:25 lpd.lock
the conatin of the lpd.lock 38

Hope someone can help me figure out the problem..

Alan.



------------------------------

From: wpp@marie.physik.tu-berlin.de (Kai Petzke)
Subject: Re: _Real_ hackers ...
Date: 17 Dec 1993 11:54:30 GMT

In <13952@dirac.physics.purdue.edu> bcr@bohr.physics.purdue.edu (Bill C. Riemers) writes:

>In article <2eikok$o55@fitz.TC.Cornell.EDU> elan@tasha.cheme.cornell.edu (Elan Feingold) writes:
>>Real hackers debug by listening to the interferance generated by the
>>running microprocessor on their FM radio.

>Don't laugh to hard, while I doubt it is the microprocessor producing the
>majority of the sound, I have seen people use this technique to find out
>exactly when a program died.  (Although I doubt this would work well in
>a multi-processing environment.)

The good old Sinclair Spectrum had a DC:DC converter to produce the +12V and
-5V for the old 4116 RAM chips.  This produced a sound in the high, but
hearable kilohertzes, and the frequency was dependant on the current needed.

This current was dependant on the number of RAM accesses, and these
depended on the work, the processor was doing.

Yes, you could listen the computer operate.

--
Kai
wpp@marie.physik.tu-berlin.de
Advertisement by Microsoft in a well-known German magazine:
        If you don't like our programmes, then make your own ones.
However, they expect you to use Microsoft products for this -:)

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: alt.folklore.computers,alt.religion.kibology,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,alt.fan.mike-dahmus
From: sillywiz@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (SillyWiz)
Subject: Re: Windows emulation  was Re: Microsoft Invented Inferior Personal C
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1993 12:07:23 GMT

In article <2eqq9j$75f@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu> tso@cephalo.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu (Dan Ts'o) writes:
>In article <CI5Dwo.2u38@hawnews.watson.ibm.com> miked@vnet.ibm.com (Mike Dahmus) writes:
>)Yes, but (and I can't believe I'm defending Windows :+) I *often* locked up
>)X-Windows on one system to the point where I had to telnet in from another
>)box and kill it. Windows to X-Windows is at least a more accurate (but still
>)not very accurate) comparison than Windows to UNIX.
>
>       All of X or just a particular X app ? I've never had all of X crash.
>X is just a graphics display server, and, e.g. our X terminals never crash.
>But sure certain buggy X apps have lotsa problems, depending on who wrote them.
>       In any case, the underlying OS, UNIX, never crashes.

Hmm.. We've had an application for VLSI design running on an IPC which
died and then vmunix while rebooting chucked out a couple of errors
and died. Took three re-tries before the unix rebooted and the thing
came back up.

yesterday I decided to FTP some stuff over and made the mistake of
using FTPTOOL. Clicked (DISCONNECT) and the thing replied "Broken pipe.."
"Broken pipe.."
"Broken pipe.."
"Broken pipe.."
"Broken pipe.."
"Login:"

I don't think X is all that much stabler than Windoze, at least when
it dies it dies a bit nicer than Windoze.

                              -- the SillyWiz --
  -------------------------------------+--------------------------------------
The University of Warwick cares little | It is now wise to turn off your
for my opinions the rest of the time so| Macintosh.
it can't have these if it wants them.  |                        (RESTART)
  -------------------------------------+--------------------------------------
     Keith Lucas ---- sillywiz@dcs.warwick.ac.uk , csugq@csv.warwick.ac.uk
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: didi@olsen.ch (Dietmar Lembke)
Subject: Re: Problem on using lprm and lpc
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1993 12:01:22 GMT

Alan Leung (aleung@muug.mb.ca) wrote:
:
: on using lpc:
: lpc> restart all
: lp:
:         Warning: daemon (pid 43) not killed
: lp:
: lpc: connect: Invalid argument
:         couldn't start daemon

Check if you have two differrent versions of lpc. If had the same
proble and it got solved by choossing the right one.

didi

Dietmar Lembke
Olsen & Associates
Seefeldstr. 233
8008 Zurich

------------------------------

From: barryt@news.dorsai.org  (barry tighe)
Subject: help with gzip please
Date: 17 Dec 1993 07:47:46 -0500

I've had a problem installing the latest distribution SLS 'B' series.
A number of files on the disks were compressed with a newer gzip than
is distributed on the 'A' disks. I get messages telling me to to get
a newer version of gzip.

However I can't seem to find a compiled version of gzip that will run.
I find the the entire gzip-1.2.4 package out there but it needs to be
compiled and I don't currently have that ability as I am short on disk
space and don't yet have room for the compiler.

Where can I find the latest version gzip that will run in my SLS
environment (pc486 33)???

BarryT

 * 1st 1.11 #2706 * A good name is more desireable than great riches...
                                                                                                    

------------------------------

From: tp@jet.uk (Tarang Patel)
Subject: Re: Linux / DOS boot
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1993 09:04:34 GMT

In <33Tmec1w165w@laser.satlink.net> jorge@laser.satlink.net (Jorge Cwik) writes:

>sfuller@ins.infonet.net writes:

>> You can't boot Linux from DOS.

>And why not ?
>I boot Novell every day from the DOS prompt. If I want, I can return back
>to DOS after downing the server.
>Why it wouldn't be possible for Linux ?

 You can, infact before lilo arrived there was a dos utility called
 BOOTLIN.COM which allowed one to use DOS SHELL command in CONFIG.SYS to boot
 a LINUX image file kept on your DOS partition. Infact, I still keep this 
 method, as well as LILO just incase I screw up something.




-- 
==============================================================================
 ___                                 |      snailmail : Mr T.K Patel
-   ---___-    _-_-,                 |                  Jet Joint Undertaking,
   (' ||         // ,                |      Email     : tp@jet.uk          
  ((  ||         ||/\\               |      Tel       : (+44) (0235) 464533
 ((   ||        ~|| <                |      Room      : K1/O/31
  (( //          ||/\\               | " I claim the right to have my own 
    -____-  <>  _-__,\\,             |   views, and to speak for my self. "
==============================================================================
- Disclaimer: Please note that the above is a personal view and should not 
  be construed as an official comment from the JET project.

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
From: mark@taylor.wyvern.com (Mark A. Davis)
Subject: Re: Windows emulation was Re: Microsoft Invented Inferior Personal C
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1993 13:50:06 GMT

tso@cephalo.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu (Dan Ts'o) writes:

>In article <CI5Dwo.2u38@hawnews.watson.ibm.com> miked@vnet.ibm.com (Mike Dahmus) writes:
>)Yes, but (and I can't believe I'm defending Windows :+) I *often* locked up
>)X-Windows on one system to the point where I had to telnet in from another
>)box and kill it. Windows to X-Windows is at least a more accurate (but still
>)not very accurate) comparison than Windows to UNIX.

>       All of X or just a particular X app ? I've never had all of X crash.
>X is just a graphics display server, and, e.g. our X terminals never crash.
>But sure certain buggy X apps have lotsa problems, depending on who wrote them.
>       In any case, the underlying OS, UNIX, never crashes.

I have to agree, I have never seen Xwindows crash here at work on SCO &
Xterminals.... and I have 100 users.  And Linux and ISC at home.... still 
never seen Xwindows crash.  My use of MS-"Windows" is sparce, but I have had
it crash on me about 1 out of 3 "sessions"; it never runs continuously
like X or Unix any way.
-- 
  /--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
  | Mark A. Davis    | Lake Taylor Hospital | Norfolk, VA (804)-461-5001x431 |
  | Sys.Administrator|  Computer Services   | mark@taylor.wyvern.com   .uucp |
  \--------------------------------------------------------------------------/

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
From: mark@taylor.wyvern.com (Mark A. Davis)
Subject: Re: Windows emulation was Re: Microsoft Invented Inferior Personal C
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1993 13:52:35 GMT

mcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington) writes:

>In article <CI50ty.28J@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> craig@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Craig Lewis) writes:
>>
>>Ok, my average Windows session is around 2 hours, and I have a crash about 1
>>hour into it.  All I do is read news through a telnet, and it just crashes.

>Setup error.  Add an appropriate EMMexclude= command to system.ini to keep
>Windows from conflicting with your Ethernet card.

>>On DOS, sometimes I'd run 3-4 days without a crash (I'd run big raytracing
>>batch files most of the nights, with moderate/heavy programming during the
>>days).

>We have machines that have been running Windows for weeks, with heavy use,
>without rebooting.

WOW!  WEEKS!!!! I have run our machine for 8 MONTHS under Unix at work, with 100
users.  24 hours a day without any problems at all.  This includes using X
every day, all the time.  And when I had to
take it down, it was to install a new driver.
-- 
  /--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
  | Mark A. Davis    | Lake Taylor Hospital | Norfolk, VA (804)-461-5001x431 |
  | Sys.Administrator|  Computer Services   | mark@taylor.wyvern.com   .uucp |
  \--------------------------------------------------------------------------/

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
From: mark@taylor.wyvern.com (Mark A. Davis)
Subject: Re: Microsoft Invented Inferior Personal Computing 
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1993 13:55:18 GMT

chris@chrism.demon.co.uk (Chris Marriott) writes:

>In article <CI3G21.Ats@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> craig@sage.cc.purdue.edu writes:

>>In article <2eme98$g6h@trane.uninett.no> hta@uninett.no (Harald T. Alvestrand)
>> writes:
>>>
>>
>>[snip]
>>
>>>And: Lots of Windows applications call *none* of them.
>>>Windows is a tidier environment than DOS, any day, according to the book.
>>>
>>
>>Then why does Windows crash at least once a session?  I've been using DOS 
>>since 3.31 was new, and I've had DOS 4.0 crash on me once.
>>

>My experience isn't at all similar to yours, Craig. I'm a professional
>Windows programmer, and I also write Windows shareware programs for fun
>(OK, so call me a masochist :-) ). Sure, my development software
>often crashes, but I honestly cannot remember the last time that a crash
>brought the system down. Set up properly, Windows seems a VERY stable
>environment indeed.

Compared to what?  And for 1 tiny little simultaneuos user..... what a small
world MS-"Windows" supports without crashing on an hourly basis.  

-- 
  /--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
  | Mark A. Davis    | Lake Taylor Hospital | Norfolk, VA (804)-461-5001x431 |
  | Sys.Administrator|  Computer Services   | mark@taylor.wyvern.com   .uucp |
  \--------------------------------------------------------------------------/

------------------------------

From: mark@taylor.wyvern.com (Mark A. Davis)
Subject: Re: Xwindows Terminal
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1993 14:02:24 GMT

kem@prl.ufl.edu (Kelly Murray) writes:

>In article <2ektlb$he3@sbi.sbi.com>, bet@std.sbi.com (Bennett Todd) writes:
>|> In article <2e7t55$dpk@snoopy.cis.ufl.edu>, Kelly Murray <kem@prl.ufl.edu> wrote:

>In this case, the extra cost of the additional
>memory, disk, configuration, and maintenence is well worth it to get the
>benefits of general-purpose local processing capability rather than
>trying to run everything over a slow serial link.  Maybe I should also
>sell systems configured this way too???

Most Xterminals have optional local clients, including the window manager,
telnet, clocks, calculators, etc.  But for remote, it IS often nice to
have local flexibility.

>you're mileage may vary.  Actually, if this is sufficient, I think you can
>get a serial-line monochrome X-terminal from Qume that runs the bulk of the
>server not locally, but on the host machine for somewhere around $500,

Unfourtunately, because the Qume terminal does not execute the server code,
it is not an Xterminal.  It is just some sort of Xdisplay.  Most hosts
cannot tollerate the load of running many servers....

-- 
  /--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
  | Mark A. Davis    | Lake Taylor Hospital | Norfolk, VA (804)-461-5001x431 |
  | Sys.Administrator|  Computer Services   | mark@taylor.wyvern.com   .uucp |
  \--------------------------------------------------------------------------/

------------------------------

From: sarr@citi.umich.edu (Sarr J. Blumson)
Subject: Re: Linux in a hospital?
Date: 17 Dec 1993 14:57:27 GMT
Reply-To: sarr@citi.umich.edu

While I am an enthusiastic home user of Linux, I wouldn't use it in a
commercial application either, and especially no in one where lives were at
stake (although it is not clear whether this is the case here).  The issue
is not that the authors are volunteers, and certainly not that they are any
less skilled than commercial OS developers (which is demonstrably false). 
The problem is that any Linux based system is a collection of individual and
essentailly unsupported pieces, which are integrated and supported by the
end user.  If I am run over by the proverbial bus tomorrow, nobody will care
whether my home system continues to function, or that nobody can figure out
what collection of peices was glued together to make them work (or find
them).  If a hospital's functioning were dependent on me...

I've been an SCO customer and, for all their faults there was somebody who
took the responsibility for making sure that it was released as as coherent
working system, and my employer could know that if something broke and I
wasn't there was somebody they could call.  (Please redirect flames about
SCO support to some group I don't read :-)).

Regarding a couple of your specifics:

The Athena widgets are part of the normal X distribution.  If SCO really
doesn;t have them getting them will be the least of your problems.

There is a supported commercial version of Ingres which is available for SCO
(it used to be bundled with Open DeskTop).  The last I knew, which was a
long time ago, they did support Quel as well as SQL,  

========
Sarr Blumson                         sarr@citi.umich.edu
voice: +1 313 764 0253               home: +1 313 665 9591
CITI, University of Michigan, 519 W William, Ann Arbor, MI 48103-4943

------------------------------


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