Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #447
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Sat, 18 Dec 93 17:13:17 EST

Linux-Misc Digest #447, Volume #1                Sat, 18 Dec 93 17:13:17 EST

Contents:
  Re: Debate: Time to Remove SLS From archive (Scott Barker)
  Re: Compiling bash-1.13.4 with GCC 2.4.5 (Brandon S. Allbery)
  Re: Windows emulation was Re: Microsoft Invented Inferior Personal C (Randolph G. Brown)
  Re: Linux counter: Usage growth of Linux (Bernd Meyer)
  DOD SLIP for pl14a (Kenneth Jamieson)
  Re: Windows emulation was Re: Microsoft Invented Inferior Personal C (Dr Eberhard W Lisse)
  Re: Linux in a hospital? (Michaela Merz)
  Re: Windows emulation was Re: Microsoft Invented Inferior Personal C (Chris Royle)
  Re: Linux in a hospital? (Chris Royle)
  Image file converter (Chris Royle)
  Re: Yet another benchmark results.. (Georges Tomazi)
  Re: _Real_ hackers ... (Nick Andrew)
  Re: Yet another benchmark results.. (Steve Thompson)
  Re: capturing boot messages (Louis J. LaBash Jr.)
  Re: capturing boot messages (Karsten Steffens)
  Re: AMD 486/40 - Not among supported hardware? (Craig Tierney)
  Re: [Q] What's on my ftape? (Al Clark)
  Re: Linux in a hospital? (Charles Hedrick)
  Re: Windows emulation  wa (John Will)
  Re: Linux Counter Update (John Will)
  Re: Windows emulation  wa (John Will)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: barker@enel.ucalgary.ca (Scott Barker)
Subject: Re: Debate: Time to Remove SLS From archive
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1993 17:16:26 GMT

Mark Morley (morley@suncad.camosun.bc.ca) wrote:

> Sure, SLS has had a large number of flaws/bugs in the past (it likely
> still has some).  But he's only 1 guy!  Give him a break!  He's done more
> for Linux than most of you put together!  I bet in another 6 months
> or so people move on to flaming Slackware or one of the others too.  

I agree. SLS was wonderful for getting many people started. SLS 1.0.4 might be
much better than 1.0.3, but unfortunately, those of us who like to download
via the Internet only see 1.0.3. I believe that the 1.0.3 distribution is old
and flawed, and that it should no longer be archived. However, I would be very
pleased to see what 1.0.4 is like. I'm not sure that this thread is (or should
be) advocating removing SLS completely. Just the old version should go.

I'm not flaming SLS, but I would like to see a newer version on the ftp sites.

--
Scott Barker
barker@enel.ucalgary.ca

"Give a man a fish and he eats for a day; teach him how to fish and he eats
   forever."
   - Ancient Chinese saying

------------------------------

From: bsa@kf8nh.wariat.org (Brandon S. Allbery)
Subject: Re: Compiling bash-1.13.4 with GCC 2.4.5
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1993 16:57:50 GMT

In article <CI6oBn.3t@kerberos.demon.co.uk>, alovell@kerberos.demon.co.uk (Anthony Lovell) says:
+---------------
| I've recently compiled bash-1.13.4 under linux 0.99.14 using GCC 2.4.5
| and have come across a small problem. The compile fails in waitstatus.h
| with an error that seems impossible, I've included the relevent sections
| of the include files, what happens is that somehow the tests
| 
| #if __BYTE_ORDER == _LITTLE_ENDIAN
| and
| #if __BYTE_ORDER == _BIG_ENDIAN
+---------------

bash comes with a file endian.h and specifies -I. in the gcc command line, so
it overrides the use of /usr/include/endian.h.  So the symbols are never
defined and the #if's are all taken as #if 0 == 0 (both true).

My hackaround was to add "#include_next <endian.h>" at the top of bash's
endian.h.  Other solutions are also possible.

++Brandon
-- 
Brandon S. Allbery         kf8nh@kf8nh.ampr.org          bsa@kf8nh.wariat.org
"MSDOS didn't get as bad as it is overnight -- it took over ten years
of careful development."  ---dmeggins@aix1.uottawa.ca
Do not taunt Happy Fun Coder.   (seen on the Net...)

------------------------------

From: brown@cs.swarthmore.edu (Randolph G. Brown)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows emulation was Re: Microsoft Invented Inferior Personal C
Date: 18 Dec 1993 18:01:12 GMT

In article <1993Dec18.125709.1185@pe1chl.ampr.org>,
Rob Janssen <rob@pe1chl.ampr.org> wrote:
>In <2eu0c3$jjn@larch.cc.swarthmore.edu> brown@cs.swarthmore.edu (Randolph G. Brown) writes:
>
>>In article <CI6yt5.277L@hawnews.watson.ibm.com>,
>>Mike Dahmus <miked@vnet.ibm.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>What is the typical cause of these lockups in X-Windows? (when a bad app barfs
>>>and makes you have to kill X)?
>>>
>>X doesn't really respond much to input on it's own, so if you somehow
>>kill all the clients that respond to input, you can't do anything, but
>>the computer will continue to go on.
>
>>I once had X totally lock up my console (stupid mouse, booted in the
>>wrong mode... ) but I had to wait for the computer to finish
>>downloading a game I wanted before resetting the machine.  Again, X
>>was fine, but it was getting bizzareness from the mouse...
>
>Most people don't seem to read the docs, or they would know they can use
>Ctrl-Alt-Backspace to kill the XFree86 server and drop back to textmode.
>It should not be necessary to reset the machine in such cases!
>
Err, when I mean totally lock up the console, I mean totally lock up
the console.  Ctrl-Alt-Backspace does no good if xdm starts up the
server again.  This was before XS3 could switch consoles.  sorta
locked out.  many solutions, but not terribly pertinent now...

        -Randy

------------------------------

From: root@umibox.hanse.de (Bernd Meyer)
Subject: Re: Linux counter: Usage growth of Linux
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1993 00:37:47 GMT

dblack@pilot.njin.net (David Alan Black) writes:

>But it's an interesting question.  Not that this is a scientifically correct
>way to conduct a survey, but....  have people had the experience of giving
>Linux to non-internet-connected friends, and having them actually install
>and use it?  Just curious.

Certainly. I would estimate that at least three have switched to linux as
their primary OS and, well, about 10 use it on a regular basis.

Bernie
-- 
We both know that the earth is round         | Bernd Meyer, EE-student
So we can't see the way before us to its end | "Nobody is a failure who has
We walk on this way, hand in hand,           |  friends" (from: "It's a   
And I hope you are still with me behind the horizon| wonderful life")

------------------------------

From: tron1@xei.jvnc.net (Kenneth Jamieson)
Subject: DOD SLIP for pl14a
Date: 9 Dec 93 02:02:38 GMT


        Is there a Dial on Demand Slip server for pl14a ?

        Thanks!

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: alt.folklore.computers,alt.religion.kibology,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,alt.fan.mike-dahmus
From: el@lisse.NA (Dr Eberhard W Lisse)
Subject: Re: Windows emulation was Re: Microsoft Invented Inferior Personal C
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1993 17:13:08 GMT

reedp@corp.hp.com (Perry Reed) writes:

>BTW, my PC with Windows, I must reboot every night or it will crash, but my
>workstation with HP-UX normally stays up for several weeks or months with no
>problems...

Yeah, but you *WORK* for HP. The man in Seattle can easily keep the
session running for weeks on end :-)-O.

el
-- 
Dr. Eberhard W. Lisse   \         /                 Windhoek Central Hospital
<el@lisse.NA>            \ *      |  Department of Obstetrics and Gynaecology
Private Bag 13215         \      /  61 203 2106/7 (Bleeper)  61 224014 (home)
Windhoek, Namibia         ;____/

------------------------------

From: misch@eurom.fsag.rhein-main.de (Michaela Merz)
Subject: Re: Linux in a hospital?
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1993 18:22:57 GMT


On 17 Dec 1993 14:57:27 GMT, sarr@citi.umich.edu (Sarr J. Blumson) wrote:

> While I am an enthusiastic home user of Linux, I wouldn't use it in a
> commercial application either, and especially no in one where lives 
> were at stake (although it is not clear whether this is the case here).
> The issue is not that the authors are volunteers, and certainly not that
> they are any less skilled than commercial OS developers (which is 
> demonstrably false). The problem is that any Linux based system is a 
> collection of individual and essentailly unsupported pieces, which are 
> integrated and supported by the end user.  If I am run over by the 
> proverbial bus tomorrow, nobody will care

We don't use Linux in a hospital. But we do use Linux in a commercial
environment. Why shouldn't we? I don't see any differences between
SCO and Linux. You can buy support from a lot of companies and orga-
nisations. We support most of them for free - just to push Linux.
What is the difference between a hospital and other companies? I don't
think, that lifes will depend on the system, because in that case I
wouldn't trust SCO or any other PC Unixsystem.

So from my point of view: Linux is ok (running more than 60 days without
rebooting in a commercial environment).

MM.


----
FREE SOFTWARE ASSOCIATION                                  irc: misch @ #fsag
OF GERMANY                                   gopher: eurom.fsag.rhein-main.de
Voice: ++49-69-6312083                www: http://callisto.fsag.rhein-main.de 

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
From: c@royle.org (Chris Royle)
Subject: Re: Windows emulation was Re: Microsoft Invented Inferior Personal C
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1993 09:12:41 GMT

Mike Dahmus (mike@schleppo.bocaraton.ibm.com) wrote:

> Blabbity blabbity blah. How the heck would I know if it was the app or not?
> All I know is that it wouldn't accept input of any kind. In OS/2, I could hit
> Ctrl+Esc, and would be given a chance to kill the offending app; but X-Windows
> is obviously better, because I have to reboot or use another machine :+)

My experience is that it's usually something a lot deeper in the system than
X itself which crashes - the kernel for example :-)

Chris.
-- 
Chris Royle               "In the sex war, insensitivity is the weapon of the
Managing Director          male, vindictiveness of the female". C. Connoly (?)
Objectronix Limited        c@royle.org              (Internet)
Leeds, UK 0850 668151      car1002@uk.ac.cam.hermes (JANET)

------------------------------

From: c@royle.org (Chris Royle)
Subject: Re: Linux in a hospital?
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1993 09:22:13 GMT

Kai Petzke (wpp@marie.physik.tu-berlin.de) wrote:

> My question goes: Do you use Linux in a hospital?  Did you
> experience networking or reliability problems?  Did they go away
> after upgrading to new versions?  If you also use SCO, how often
> does Linux crash relative to SCO?

I have had a view (not just on hospital use, but use left right and centre)
on the uses of Linux. And here it is :

Linux is a fantastic operating system, and a fantastic concept - In short,
I love it, my machine no longer runs DOS at all, and there is just over
a gigabyte of storage for Linux. BUT, and it's a hell of a big "but" in the
commercial world and in hospitals and suchlike, linux is *not* as stable as
it has to be for such an environment. If my home machine (this one) goes
down because of a linux fault (which admittedly it doesn't do very often),
I just say "hey... it's free.. never mind." and reboot it.

In the real world (ie, non-academic - sorry, a bit of a generalisation, but
you will see my point), people need to feel that they have telephone support,
extremely reliable systems, etc., etc. - ie, pay large amounts of money. EVEN
IF what they get is inferior to Linux. 

One of my major clients likes linux a lot - and has one 486/50 running it
some of the time, but understandably, since they don't understand Unix, and
have no support guaranteed for it (they have no news/mail at all), and 
no manuals (properly printed), then they are very dubious about it.

For instance, one very large system they developed (they're a firm of
civil engineers, it's a safety critical monitoring system for another
UK company) is intended to run on Suns - and does. Now, they *did* use
linux for some of the development, purely because it provided another
openwindows environment, and the code compiled cleanly. BUT, there is no
way on this Earth they'd ever try and give Linux to a client - it would
go against *all* of the IS9000/BS5750 rules, professional ethics, and so on.
It simply can't be done.

So you see, in my opinion, whilst Linux is a fine operating system (and it's
rare I say that about anything!) - it's marvellous, wonderful, gorgeous,
all the other nice adjectives - I love it remember - it was a *very* 
unsound thing to do in giving it to a hospital to run their database.
Particularly since it is still oficially in "beta".

Chris Royle.
-- 
Chris Royle               "In the sex war, insensitivity is the weapon of the
Managing Director          male, vindictiveness of the female". C. Connoly (?)
Objectronix Limited        c@royle.org              (Internet)
Leeds, UK 0850 668151      car1002@uk.ac.cam.hermes (JANET)

------------------------------

From: c@royle.org (Chris Royle)
Subject: Image file converter
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1993 14:19:15 GMT

Hi,

I need a converter programme that will do IFF/Targa to GIF/JPG and the like
so that I can view POVRAY output with xv. Any ideas as to where to get one ?

I would have posted in the general unix groups, but this site doesn't carry
them.

Many thanks.

Chris.
-- 
Chris Royle               "In the sex war, insensitivity is the weapon of the
Managing Director          male, vindictiveness of the female". C. Connoly (?)
Objectronix Limited        c@royle.org              (Internet)
Leeds, UK 0850 668151      car1002@uk.ac.cam.hermes (JANET)

------------------------------

From: tomazi@kralizec.zeta.org.au (Georges Tomazi)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware,comp.os.vms,relcom.talk,relcom.fido.su.general
Subject: Re: Yet another benchmark results..
Date: 14 Dec 1993 12:25:08 +1100

In <1993Dec8.171732.26913@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu> viznyuk@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu (Dragon Fly) writes:

Another one to add in your database:

Encore Multimax MM510  128Mb RAM (6 ns32000 processors)
running UMAX 2.4.1.P3 (Unix System V Release 3)
native C compiler with optimisation (Green Hills)
Same result with two or 100 users (thanks multiprocessors !)

time=270
real=4:31.90
user=4:26.50
sys=5.38

That's it !

Georges

-- 
   Georges A. Tomazi  / Internet: tomazi@kralizec.zeta.org.au  /    And
 Sydney * Australia  /           tomazi@tctel.frmug.fr.net    / God created
   +61 2 264 6892   /           tomazi@smop-oz.frmug.fr.net  /     Unix...

------------------------------

From: nick@kralizec.zeta.org.au (Nick Andrew)
Subject: Re: _Real_ hackers ...
Date: 15 Dec 1993 02:30:14 +1100

In <1993Dec10.175604.20518@rosevax.rosemount.com> grante@hydro.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards) writes:

>Brandon S. Allbery (bsa@kf8nh.wariat.org) wrote:

>You guys use _terminals_?  Wow, what a bunch of namby-pamby wimps.
>Real hackers use _real_ computers.  The kind with rows of toggle
>switches and lights on the front panel.

You had a front panel? Cor, wot luxury. I had to use DOS.

[ wheezing old voice off ]

The youth of today ... they'll never believe a word of it!

Nick.
-- 
Kralizec Dialup Unix (Public Access)    Data: +61-2-837-1183, 837-1868
Zeta Microcomputer Software             v.42bis v.32bis 14.4k 24 hours
P.O. Box 177, Riverstone NSW 2765       Plan: To beat Gnuchess 4.0 fairly!

------------------------------

From: olin@cheme.cornell.edu (Steve Thompson)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware,comp.os.vms,relcom.talk,relcom.fido.su.general
Subject: Re: Yet another benchmark results..
Date: 18 Dec 1993 20:45:17 GMT
Reply-To: olin@cheme.cornell.edu

In article <2ej4lk$70c@kralizec.zeta.org.au>, tomazi@kralizec.zeta.org.au (Georges Tomazi) writes:
>   Georges A. Tomazi  / Internet: tomazi@kralizec.zeta.org.au  /    And
> Sydney * Australia  /           tomazi@tctel.frmug.fr.net    / God created
>   +61 2 264 6892   /           tomazi@smop-oz.frmug.fr.net  /     Unix...
                                                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^

Yeah, but he had a day off to rest, and never got around to finishing the
job. :-)

-steve

===========================================================================
Steve Thompson, System Mangler   Internet: thompson@cheme.cornell.edu
School of Chemical Engineering   Bitnet:   thompson@crnlchme
Olin Hall, Cornell University    Phone:    (607) 255 5573
Ithaca NY 14853                  FAX:      (607) 255 9166
===========================================================================

------------------------------

From: lou@minuet.siue.edu (Louis J. LaBash Jr. )
Subject: Re: capturing boot messages
Date: 18 Dec 1993 16:24:55 -0500
Reply-To: lou@minuet.siue.edu (Louis J. LaBash Jr. )

Hi,

|I remember in some earlier version of UNIX there was a file which was
|created on every boot which contained all of the boot time messages (for
|later reference).

Yes, look for "/usr/adm/messages", or use "find".
  find / -name messages -print

Louis-ljl-


------------------------------

From: karsten@kshome.ruhr.de (Karsten Steffens)
Subject: Re: capturing boot messages
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1993 16:58:46 GMT

Brian L. Heess (bheess@cheshire.oxy.edu) wrote:

: I remember in some earlier version of UNIX there was a file which was
: created on every boot which contained all of the boot time messages (for
: later reference).

: Is there such a thing here in Linux, or could we make such a thing?

If you're running one of the latest kernels, you already have it. Do
a 'cat /proc/kmsg', then you'll see... You have to end the listing by
typing ^C, because the kmsg-File has no EOF.

Karsten
-- 
==================>         Karsten Steffens        <=====================
   karsten@kshome.ruhr.de          |      steffens@ikp.uni-muenster.de
Marl - close to Recklinghausen     |         Institut fuer Kernphysik
  North of the Ruhrgebiet          |   Westf.Wilhelms-Universitaet Muenster

------------------------------

From: tierney@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Craig Tierney)
Subject: Re: AMD 486/40 - Not among supported hardware?
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1993 20:26:33 GMT

In article <1993Dec17.073929.5665@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il>,
Dov Grobgeld <dov@menora.weizmann.ac.il> wrote:
>I just had a look at the HOWTO-Hardware list, and was surprised not
>to find the AMD 486/40 MHz chip on the list of supported CPU? Are
>there any indications that this chip does *not* work with Linux?
>I'd rather get this chip than the Intel 486, since it gives me
>more cream for the same price.

I am running an AMD486/40,8Meg, with pl12.  I have had this configuration
for 4 months with no problems.  I have seen others say that they have not
had problems with the AMD486/40.  

Craig
Craig Tierney (tierney@rtt.colorado.edu)

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
From: aclark@netcom.com (Al Clark)
Subject: Re: [Q] What's on my ftape?
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1993 21:27:41 GMT

In article <1993Dec16.095725.23445@newsserver.rrzn.uni-hannover.de> jaymecox@coyote.rain.org (That'd be me!) writes:
>
>       Ok, this is probably in a faq somewhere.....
>How do I get a listing of what is on my tape? (QIC-80 and ftape-0.9.8)
>
>       While I'm posting, what do people recomeend for backup and
>restore procedures?  Right now I just use tar and it seems to work pretty
>well. But I havn't had to do a compleate restore from tape yet and hope I
>neever do as I'm not sure about how to check for errors, etc.
>
>
>                                       --JC
   
   To get a listing when you put the data on tape, save the tar listing
   output to a file.

   tar -cvf /dev/ftape name > tar.lst

   To get a list of what is on tape, just list it:

   tar -tvf /dev/ftape > tar.lst.

   If you want to verify the contents of the tape, use the 'd' for
   diff option of tar. While in the directory that you used to generate
   the tape, enter:

   tar -df /dev/ftape

   Tar will report any discrepancies between what is on tape and what
   is on disk.  Note the absense of 'v', to avoid listing files that
   compare okay.  Will report differences in ownernship, permissions,
   or size.  If size is correct, will report if there are compare 
   errors.  This feature of gnu tar has caused me to install it on
   a number of systems for my own use.


   Actually, I suggest you use tar with a relatively large block size,
   so as to keep the tape records large.  I haven't had a lot of
   experience with QIC40 yet, but with my QIC02 tape I use a block
   size of 3000 (3000*512 = 1.5 Mbyte) to successfully minimize
   start/stop activity.

   tar -b 3000 -cvf /dev/ftape ....
-- 
Al - aclark@netcom.com - My opinions are my own.

------------------------------

From: hedrick@geneva.rutgers.edu (Charles Hedrick)
Subject: Re: Linux in a hospital?
Date: 18 Dec 93 21:41:33 GMT

On 17 Dec 1993 14:57:27 GMT, sarr@citi.umich.edu (Sarr J. Blumson) wrote:

> While I am an enthusiastic home user of Linux, I wouldn't use it in a
> commercial application either, and especially no in one where lives 
> were at stake (although it is not clear whether this is the case here).
> The issue is not that the authors are volunteers, and certainly not that
> they are any less skilled than commercial OS developers (which is 
> demonstrably false). The problem is that any Linux based system is a 
> collection of individual and essentailly unsupported pieces, which are 
> integrated and supported by the end user.  If I am run over by the 
> proverbial bus tomorrow, nobody will care

I don't think there's anything intrinsically worse about Linux for
commercial use.  If you update only to software releases that appear
stable, I think the system is at least as good as most commercial
software I've seen.  (This specifically includes some PC SVr4 versions
and Solaris 2.)  I've been using Linux for quite some time, and have
played with experimental versions as well as production versions.
While I understand that the suits may find things about it unsettling,
in fact the kernel has an advantage over most commercial kernels: it
is being done (or at least integrated) by one very good programmer.
There are still advantages to having a single person in charge of a
project.  Linus clearly understands kernel design issues, and has
managed to produce a very well built system.  I've looked at the code,
and I have seen Linus' changes and bug fixes over a long period of
time.  Undergrad or not, I would judge the quality of his code to be
better than most code I've seen in operating systems.  He's got a
large enough group of people working with him to get the benefit of
"code reviews", etc.

Where I would worry is long-term support.  If the group has
knowledgable Unix staff, who are willing to keep up with Linux
developments and make some judgements about new versions, then I think
it would work out well.  If you have people who want only
shrink-wrapped, vendor-supported software, I think they should go with
SCO or some other commercial system.  I haven't yet seen signs of a
vendor that looks like they are providing support for Linux that can
be relied on for the long term.  Maybe there's somebody out there that
I don't know.  It's probably true that you get better support from the
net, but taking advantage of that support requires people with a
specific mind-set and skills that may not be present in many
organizations.

There's also a question about what happens when Linus graduates.  If
the Finnish government is smart, they'll declare him a national
resource and fund him to continue Linux.  But you never know.  It's
possible that Linux could continue without him.  There are a number of
very good people working on it.  It's also possible that users could
move to the Hurd (if it ever exists).  Since the libraries and
utilities in Linux are Gnu-based, there should be a high degree of
compatibility with the Hurd.  But I can understand some nervousness
about these issues.  It wouldn't necessarily stop me.  OS's are
changing a lot these days.  Even users sticking with old-time Unix
vendors are being put through transitions as bad as going from Linux
to another variant.  And the DOS/Windows world looks like it's going
to be going through lots of change in the next couple of years as
well.  So any prudent developer should assume that their code is going
to have to be ported several times during its life, and design
accordingly.  But I don't think there's any point trying to convince
people whose orientation is towards systems that stress continuity and
support above all else.

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Windows emulation  wa
From: john.will@satalink.com (John Will)
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 93 17:38:00 -0640

C >I really have to wonder what kind of environments some of you people are
C >running. I run Windows in a moderately complex environment which includes
C >Banyan Vines and TCP/IP. My major activities are software development, 
C >e-mail and word processing and can't remember the last time I had a crash.
C >I turn on my machine on Monday morning and turn it off on Friday evening
C >without a single reboot in between.

I am also amused by the flak Windows is taking here. :-)  While it's
certainly a kludge by almost any standard, if it's not setup by a moron,
it's much more stable than these folks seem to feel.  I do development of
"C" applications in a DOS window, and I seldom crash it!  I'll admit that
Linux handles stuff like this much better, I just wish Linux had things
like Borland C's IDE environment.  Another thing that kinda' gets me is
the relative speed of gcc as opposed to Borland's compile, there is a
significant difference... :-)  I'm going to take a look at UPS, maybe
that's an environment I can live with, maybe not...

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Linux Counter Update
From: john.will@satalink.com (John Will)
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 93 08:44:00 -0640

G >Your latest Linux Counter is interesting, but you left out the info I
G >sent you on the 3 Linux box's in Antartica.  Ie. Finland is not the top 
G >of the list for Linux to population!-)

It was a political decision. :-)

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Windows emulation  wa
From: john.will@satalink.com (John Will)
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 93 08:46:00 -0640

CR>>Setup error.  Add an appropriate EMMexclude= command to system.ini to keep
CR>>Windows from conflicting with your Ethernet card.
CR>
CR>That might help, but it's not my job.  They've got one system.ini that the
CR>the whole PC network uses.

GAD!  The old "not my job" argument!  With that kind of attitude, it's
not surprising that you have problems with any operating environment... :-)

------------------------------


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