Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #605
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Thu, 27 Jan 94 17:50:16 EST

Linux-Misc Digest #605, Volume #1                Thu, 27 Jan 94 17:50:16 EST

Contents:
  Re: Linux Who's Who and History Projects (Daniel Quinlan)
  Any Linux BBS's in the Toronto Area?? (Dhaliwal Bikram Singh)
  Re: Linux Distributions and the Shadow Password Suite (Petri Wessman)
  Re: Upgrading Linux (Byron A Jeff)
  Re: Advice on multi-serial cards wanted... (Byron A Jeff)
  What exactly qualifies to needing permission for Shadow? (McArthur E. Sandridge III)
  Re: Solitaire ? (Ben Taylor)
  Re: How much disk for Slackware 1.1.1 (Jay Maynard)
  Anyone compiled xfortress for linux? (William M. Perry)
  Re: Solitaire ? (Steve Harrington)
  GPL confusion (Was: Linux Distributions and the Shadow Pass) (Anton Ertl)
  Re: Does anyone use Linux for REAL WORLD commercial applications? (Allan Adler)
  Re: port DOS games to Linux..? (Allan Adler)
  Re: Slackware needs a shadow package! (Bill C. Riemers)
  Re: Any info on Genoa PCI motherboards? (Thorsten Taeschner)
  Re: port DOS games to Linux..? (Mark Lord)
  Re: [Q] ASCII -> PS (Andreas Joppich)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: quinlan@spectrum.cs.bucknell.edu (Daniel Quinlan)
Subject: Re: Linux Who's Who and History Projects
Date: 27 Jan 94 01:21:29 GMT
Reply-To: quinlan@spectrum.cs.bucknell.edu


shendrix@escape.twuug.com (C. S. Hendrix) writes:

>> Also, someone said I should include the people at GNU/FSF who wrote the
>> GCC compiler, Emacs, etc.  I disagree.  While I'm sure we all appreciate
>> the efforts of those people, they did not develop Linux.

jbuck@synopsys.com (Joe Buck) writes:

> Fair enough, if and only if you give H. J. no credit for providing GCC
> for Linux, as he did about 1/1000 of the work involved (compared to the
> task of writing a highly portable C compiler that generates good i386/486
> code, the task of porting it to Linux was miniscule).  I've already seen
> such claims floating around the Linux community (that H.J did the compiler).

At the same time, I have never seen H.J. attempt to claim glory or any
such nonsense for himself and he has done a great deal on the compiler
where GNU stopped.  Linus also has a great deal to do with the quality
of the GCC Linux compiler.

> Similarly, if you credit people who did the slight bit of hacking
> required to port GNU applications to Linux without crediting the
> original developers, you risk making the Linux community seem very,
> very ungrateful.

I doubt there is anyone in this category who stands out.

Dan

--
Daniel Quinlan  <quinlan@spectrum.cs.bucknell.edu>

------------------------------

From: a336dhal@cdf.toronto.edu (Dhaliwal Bikram Singh)
Subject: Any Linux BBS's in the Toronto Area??
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 04:36:25 GMT

I have read the BBS list and there is only one BBS in the area
(R-Node).  THere must be others.

I already have Internet Access, I just want to check out how
Linux is as a BBS.

-bik

------------------------------

From: Petri.Wessman@hut.fi (Petri Wessman)
Subject: Re: Linux Distributions and the Shadow Password Suite
Date: 27 Jan 1994 15:21:32 GMT
Reply-To: Petri.Wessman@hut.fi

On Wed, 26 Jan 1994 14:50:25 GMT, jfh@rpp386 (John F. Haugh II) said:

>To the best of my knowledge, Debian Linux is one such example.  They
>took Shadow code, and in violation of the copyright, sold that code
>to others.  Furthermore, they have been completely unwilling to reach
>any terms as to licensing Shadow.

Do you have any idea what you're talking about? Debian is in alpha
(well, beta now I guess) development and hasn't been sold to anybody.
The whole idea behind Debian is to build a user driven (_free_)
distribution, hopefully better than the others out there (and it looks
*good* so far -- gratuitous blurb :-).

_License_ shadow? Why would anyone want to do that anyway? The last
time I looked the code was pretty much broken, I hope the newest
Debian dist has dropped it completely.

Sheesh.

//Petri

------------------------------

From: byron@cc.gatech.edu (Byron A Jeff)
Subject: Re: Upgrading Linux
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 02:19:39 GMT

In article <1994Jan24.161403@cs.man.ac.uk>,
Ian Chard <chardi@cs.man.ac.uk> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>So many things have changed since I installed my 0.99-pl4 SLS all those months
>ago... there seem to be new distributions for every command on the system!
>
>With this in mind, is it worth me backing up my personal files and reinstalling
>from a new SLS, or is there an easier way?

Yes. Backup your files and install a new Slackware. Up to date stuff,
better installation. 

Later,

BAJ
---
Another random extraction from the mental bit stream of...
Byron A. Jeff - PhD student operating in parallel!
Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332   Internet: byron@cc.gatech.edu

------------------------------

From: byron@cc.gatech.edu (Byron A Jeff)
Subject: Re: Advice on multi-serial cards wanted...
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 02:39:50 GMT

In article <1994Jan24.134849.5693@news.cs.indiana.edu>,
Eric Jeschke <jeschke@cs.indiana.edu> wrote:
>byron@cc.gatech.edu (Byron A Jeff) writes:
>:I can put together a 386/40 (or mabe even 486DLC/40 or IBM 486SLC2/66),
>:8 Megs of memory,2 STB 4ports (with 16550s), floppy, case + PS and Enet
>:card for about $660. 
>
>Excuse me, but could you elaborate on how to do this for a 486 for $660?
>Considering the cheapest 486 systems are hovering around $1000 mail-order
>I'm just curious as to where you can scrounge the pieces for this kind
>of system for $660.  The mail-order places are operating on pretty thin
>margins as it is.

OK. First of all I said a 386/40 so let's start with that. I'll use prices
I've been quoted from local places.

$129 - 386/40 MB/w 128k cache - GIM computers
$264 - 8Megs memory (@ $33/Meg) - HL computers
$ 65 - desktop case and PS - GIM
$220 - 2 STB 4ports with 16550's - Promise Tech.
$ 38 - 1.44 Meg floppy - HL
$ 19 - Multi IO
$ 39 - NE2000 clone (Addtron card - Data Comm Warehouse - 800-328-2261)
----
$774

Not too far off from my first estimate. Add $50 for a 486 DLC and $100 for
an IBM 486SLC2/66. Probably could function with 4 meg (dropping $132 from
the price and getting me under my original estimate).

For a terminal server you don't need a video system, keyboard, or harddisk.
That's why we're not talking about $1000 system.

BAJ
---
Another random extraction from the mental bit stream of...
Byron A. Jeff - PhD student operating in parallel!
Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332   Internet: byron@cc.gatech.edu

------------------------------

From: sandridg.infosvcs@mhs1.sth.ufl.edu (McArthur E. Sandridge III)
Subject: What exactly qualifies to needing permission for Shadow?
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 12:28:37 GMT

[...  Lots of posts with too much complaining going both ways about the 
Shadow license ...]

As a curiosity to this problem...  Where exactly is the line for needing 
permission?  

My Case particularly, is that I run a BBS and have been thinking about 
putting Linux up for Download.  I have a $10/year fee for UNLIMITED 
downloading (Users have to maintain a 4:1 ratio to not pay a fee, which 
would be difficult with Linux).  But it doesn't even cover my monthly phone 
bill.  Do I need permission?

What if someone asks me to set them up a unix box, they pay me for the 
Computer (NOT the OS) and consulting fee for configuring the sytem, would 
that require it also?

I'm just curious, since I don't have the source here at work, and I have 
been reading all the traffic about this...

Buddy.

sandridg.infosvcs@mhs1.sth.ufl.edu     | My opinions are not necessairly those
The.Warlock@f70.n3601.z1.fidonet.org   | of my employer.

...  Backup my hard drive?  I can't find the reverse switch! :)

------------------------------

From: s9ubxt@almserv.uucp (Ben Taylor)
Subject: Re: Solitaire ?
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 12:26:22 GMT

jfh@ES-sun2 (Johann Friedrich Heinrichmeyer) writes:

>Frank M. Haynes (frank@vatmom.COM) wrote:
>: The only reason I use MS windows is for Solitaire.

>: Is it available for X-windows?

>: Thanks.

>: --Frank
>: -- 
>: --------------------------------------------------------------------
>: Frank Haynes                 406 Pinetree Circle   Decatur, GA 30032
>: +1 404 279-4626                                     frank@vatmom.COM
>there is a tcl/tk solitaire i know.

There is even tkmines which is like minesweeper.

>--
>Fritz Heinrichmeyer          Tel.:  02371/566-243
>FernUniversitaet Hagen       FAX:   02371/52212
>Lehrgebiet ES                EMAIL: fritz.heinrichmeyer@fernuni-hagen.de
>Frauenstuhlweg 31
>58644 Iserlohn
>Germany

Ben Taylor
Smoke N' Mirrors, Inc.
s9ubxt@fnma.com
bent@snm.com

------------------------------

From: jmaynard@nyx10.cs.du.edu (Jay Maynard)
Subject: Re: How much disk for Slackware 1.1.1
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 94 15:29:12 GMT

In article <FOX.94Jan26182843@graphics.cs.nyu.edu>,
David Fox <fox@graphics.cs.nyu.edu> wrote:
>Could we just agree that the original question was ambiguous?

Absolutely. In fact, that was what led to the discussion: it's obvious that my 
definition of "usable" does not coincide with others'. That's fine; it's why 
there _are_ different distributions, and why the installation process allows 
the user to pick and choose what _he_ thinks is necessary.

My objection is simply to the attitude that, to be considered usable, the 
system needs loads of porcine components. That may be true for some, but 
certainly not for everyone.
--
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by stupidity.
"The difference between baseball and politics is that, in baseball, if you
               get caught stealing, you're out!" -- Ed Shanks

------------------------------

From: wmperry@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (William M. Perry)
Subject: Anyone compiled xfortress for linux?
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 16:06:08 GMT

Hello all,

   I have been trying to compile xfortress for linux (.99pl14, XFree86
2.0, gcc 2.5.7, libc 4.5.8), but get lots of errors when trying to
link.

/usr/lib/libXaw.a(Command.o): Undefined symbol _XCreateRegion referenced from text segment
/usr/lib/libXaw.a(Command.o): Undefined symbol _XCreateRegion referenced from text segment
/usr/lib/libXaw.a(Command.o): Undefined symbol _XCreateRegion referenced from text segment
p/usr/lib/libXaw.a(Command.o): Undefined symbol _XUnionRectWithRegion referenced from text segment
[...]
/usr/lib/libXt.a(Converters.o): Undefined symbol _XCreateFontSet referenced from text segment
/usr/lib/libXt.a(Converters.o): Undefined symbol _XFreeStringList referenced from text segment
/usr/lib/libXt.a(Converters.o): Undefined symbol _XCreateFontSet referenced from text segment
/usr/lib/libXt.a(Converters.o): Undefined symbol _XFreeStringList referenced from text segment
/usr/lib/libXt.a(Converters.o): Undefined symbol _XCreateFontSet referenced from text segment
/usr/lib/libXt.a(Converters.o): Undefined symbol _XFreeStringList referenced from text segment
/usr/lib/libXt.a(Converters.o): Undefined symbol _XFreeFontSet referenced from text segment
/usr/lib/libXt.a(Converters.o): Undefined symbol _XLoadQueryFont referenced from text segment
[...]
/usr/lib/libXext.a(extutil.o): Undefined symbol _XInitExtension referenced from text segment
/usr/lib/libXext.a(extutil.o): Undefined symbol _XESetWireToEvent referenced from text segment
/usr/lib/libXext.a(extutil.o): Undefined symbol _XESetEventToWire referenced from text segment

These are but a few of the 262 error messages that spew out.  Nowhere
in any of the source files are these functions called, its strictly in
the libraries.

Library version #s:
-rw-r--r--   1 root     wheel       24178 Oct 19 15:51 libXext.a
-r-xr-xr-x   1 root     wheel      320516 Oct 20 04:24 libX11.so.3.1.0*
-r-xr-xr-x   1 root     wheel      291844 Oct 20 04:24 libXt.so.3.1.0*
-r-xr-xr-x   1 root     wheel      189444 Oct 20 04:25 libXaw.so.3.1.0*

Anybody got any pointers?  Reply by email please - don't want to clog
up the newsgroup any more than it is.

-Bill P.

------------------------------

From: harringt@netcom.com (Steve Harrington)
Subject: Re: Solitaire ?
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 12:29:00 GMT

frank@vatmom.COM (Frank M. Haynes) writes:

>The only reason I use MS windows is for Solitaire.

>Is it available for X-windows?

>Thanks.

>--Frank
>-- 
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>Frank Haynes                 406 Pinetree Circle   Decatur, GA 30032
>+1 404 279-4626                                     frank@vatmom.COM

Yes.  The source is tksol at  harbor.ecn.purdue.edu in directory pub/tcl.
Obviously it is written in tk-tcl.  The source for tk is at ftp.cs.berkeley.edu  in directory ucb/tcl.  There is a compiled version of tk/tcl available
(at sunsite I think).

Steve
harringt@netcom.com


------------------------------

From: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Subject: GPL confusion (Was: Linux Distributions and the Shadow Pass)
Date: 27 Jan 1994 16:32:13 GMT

In article <1994Jan27.113558.14652@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, jmaynard@nyx10.cs.du.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:
|> The FSF has refused, in the past, to defend any code but their own, even 
|> though it was under the GPL. Specific case: Xircom used the packet driver 
|> skeleton for their pocket Ethernet adapter driver, and refused to release 
|> source. The FSF wasn't interested; when I brought the matter to Richard 
|> Stallman's attention, he said that they could not take any action, since it 
|> wasn't their code.

Right. They can only take action if they are the copyright holders. So
the authors of the packet driver skeleton would have either to sign
over the copyright to the FSF or they would have to take action
themselves.

Bill Riemers wrote:
>One easy way to avoid this problem is to use the GNU copyright, so that you
>can get the Free Software Foundation to take the action necessary to enforce
>your copyright.  (Note: In doing so you may be giving up your rights to change
>your copyright just as if you had sold your rights to someone else...)

AFAIK this is not true. When you are the copyright holder, you can
sell a version under any legal terms. If you have signed the copyright
to the FSF, their usual terms allow you to sell the program on 30 days
notice, although they think selling is wrong.

- anton

P.S.: A different followup would be necessary, but I don't know the
appropriate Newsgroup.

-- 
M. Anton Ertl                    Some things have to be seen to be believed
anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at Most things have to be believed to be seen

------------------------------

From: ara@zurich.ai.mit.edu (Allan Adler)
Subject: Re: Does anyone use Linux for REAL WORLD commercial applications?
Date: 27 Jan 94 13:02:29

In article <CK7r1w.FuF@eecs.nwu.edu> hpa@hook.eecs.nwu.edu (H. Peter Anvin) writes:

   You must provide your applications in a way that permits users to
   re-link with a newer version of the library.  This is not a problem if
   you are using C, since the Linux C library is a drop-in-replacement
   dynamic object.  Just make sure you link your application dynamically
   and with ld.so.  (Note: you want to do this *anyway*).


My experience in trying to upgrade from SLS 1.02 with linux 0.99 p.9-1
to linux 0.99 p.14 is that the Linux C library is  NOT just a drop
in replacement. To use libc-4.5.8, one has to be using a
certain upgrade of gcc, implying an upgrade of gcc. That upgrade of
gcc requires a certain upgrade of the kernel, which in turn requires
an upgrade of gcc. If one sorts it all out, at least on paper one
cannot get there from here. On the other hand, it says very clearly
in the documentation for libc-4.5.8 that you must follow the
installation instructions EXACTLY. 

Allan Adler
ara@altdorf.ai.mit.edu


------------------------------

From: ara@zurich.ai.mit.edu (Allan Adler)
Subject: Re: port DOS games to Linux..?
Date: 27 Jan 94 13:04:33



Is there some copyright problem in having adventure on Linux?

Allan Adler
ara@altdorf.ai.mit.edu

------------------------------

From: bcr@bohr.physics.purdue.edu (Bill C. Riemers)
Subject: Re: Slackware needs a shadow package!
Date: 27 Jan 94 16:55:13 GMT

In article <JHELBERG.94Jan27095019@nlsun8.oracle.nl> jhelberg@nlsun8.oracle.nl (Joost Helberg) writes:
>In article <14523@dirac.physics.purdue.edu> bcr@bohr.physics.purdue.edu (Bill C. Riemers) writes:
>   How about this:
>   1. Add an encryption feature into the file system.
>   2. Sell the CD at cost.
>   3. Encrypt any program on the CD that the the copyright allows.
>   4. Sell the encryption key needed to access the encrypted stuff.
>
>Are you serious?

Well I don't intend on doing it, if that is what you mean by serious, but
I do think it is a reasonable idea.

>This is exactly one of the things the GPL wants to avoid: an
>artificial relationship between customer and distributor with all the
>power at the distributor's end.

Then GPL isn't doing a very good job of it.  Eventually going to an encrypted
file system is the only thing that will ever allow Linux to become commercially
viable.  Otherwise the legal hassels of conflicting copyrights will make things
impossable.  Forexample, lets say I wanted to make Bill's Linux distribution
on CD which includes lots of GNU stuff and source code and Motif.  (Why on
the same CD?  So that users with small harddisks can run directly from CD.)
Unfortunately programs X, Y, and Z do not allow me to make a profit from 
thier distributions, but I need to change at least $200 to be able to afford
the Motif distribution licence.  So what do I do?  Well the only solution
I can see is:
   CD cost --> $10 (my costs)
   Boot disk A --> $2 (my costs) --> does not allow access to Motif
   Boot disk B --> $200 --> allows access to Motif

Since, Linux's copyright requires that I provide the source code, I couldn't
just do something simple like a compile time options, but instead I would
need a method of encryption.  (Obcourse the challenge would be to develope
something that would be dependant on which computer it was run on, so the
customer couldn't just copy someone else's B disk.

                              Bill


>Ridiculous.
>--
>   Joost Helberg                              Rijnzathe 6
>   jhelberg@oracle.nl                         NL-3454 PV De Meern
>   jhelberg@nl.oracle.com                     The Netherlands
>
>   Oracle Europe BV                           Product Line Development 
>   Phone: +31 3406 94211                      Fax:   +31 3406 65609



------------------------------

From: taeschne@uran.informatik.uni-bonn.de (Thorsten Taeschner)
Subject: Re: Any info on Genoa PCI motherboards?
Date: 27 Jan 1994 12:54:40 GMT
Reply-To: taeschne@uran.informatik.uni-bonn.de

As far as I can remember from the arcticle in the german c`t 2/94 the 
Genoa has NO onboard IDE-Controller no onboard SCSI-Controller and no
serial/par. Connectors. So you might be suck with your old ISA-IDE 
Controller. There are boards that give you IDE + SCSI + SER. + PAR.
(eg. AsusTek)

BUT nearly all PCI-Borads that were tested in that article had problems
with one or another PCI/ISA card (escpecially PCI-SVGA cards). 

If you just want connect your SCSI/IDE HD`s to the board now and wait 
with the PCI-SVGA Card. I would advise a AsusTek Board.


/*****************************************************************
*********        Mailing from Torsten Taeschner         **********
******************************************************************
*********    taeschne@athene.informatik.uni-bonn.de     **********
*** Torsten Taeschner         |                             ******
*** Waisenhausgasse 5         | These are strange things    ******
*** 50676 Koeln               |         going on.           ******
******************************************************************/



------------------------------

From: mlord@bnr.ca (Mark Lord)
Subject: Re: port DOS games to Linux..?
Date: 27 Jan 1994 16:34:01 GMT

In article <CKA7KD.5r0@hpwin052.uksr.hp.com> bassman@isoit034.bbn.hp.com writes:
>       How do I make my process sleep for a very small, but accurate amount
>of time ?  Did I miss something somewhere ?  (Probably...)  It'd be useful
>to be able to set alarm() in the same way. I know I could read the clock
>and do loads of compares, but this is busy-waiting, and I'd rather have the
>process sleep (for several reasons).

Look for, or write, a "usleep()" function (micro-second sleep).  These are 
common but not universal, and not all that difficult to implement.

Here is a 5-minute rough attempt that works for me:

#include <signal.h>
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <time.h>

volatile int usleep_in_progress = 0;

void handle_SIGALRM ()
{
        usleep_in_progress = 0;
}

void usleep(unsigned int useconds)
{
        struct itimerval new, old;

        if (!useconds) {
                sleep(0);
                return;
        }
        if (useconds < 1000000) {       /* avoid division on shorter delays */
                new.it_value.tv_sec  = 0;
                new.it_value.tv_usec = useconds;
        } else {
                new.it_value.tv_sec  = useconds / 1000000;
                new.it_value.tv_usec = useconds % 1000000;
        }
        new.it_interval.tv_sec = 0;             /* 0 = one-shot timer */
        new.it_interval.tv_usec = 0;
        signal (SIGALRM, &handle_SIGALRM);      /* install timeout handler */
        usleep_in_progress = 1;                 /* this is reset by handler */

        /* Start the timer.  It will signal with SIGALRM when it expires */
        if (setitimer(ITIMER_REAL, &new, &old)) {
                fprintf(stderr, "usleep: could not set ITIMER_REAL\n");
                abort();
        }

        while (usleep_in_progress)      /* wait for timer expiry */
                pause();                /* wait for signals */
}

main(int argc, char *argv[])
{
        /* expects one parameter:  a count of micro-seconds to sleep for: */
        int delay;

        delay = atoi(*++argv);
        fprintf(stderr,"Sleeping for %d useconds..\n", delay);
        usleep(delay);
}
-- 
mlord@bnr.ca    Mark Lord       BNR Ottawa,Canada       613-763-7482

------------------------------

From: aj@Z2-DB21b.ms.DeTeMobil.de (Andreas Joppich)
Subject: Re: [Q] ASCII -> PS
Date: 27 Jan 1994 06:45:32 GMT
Reply-To: aj@ms.DeTeMobil.de

In article <1994Jan26.024128.19602@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, hsun@csd-gl-5.stanford.edu (Harry Sun) writes:
|> Does anyone know of a publicly available untility that will
|> create an postscript file from an ascii file (much like
|> enscript)
|> 

There's a nice little and flexible tool called 'a2ps' . It resides in
the /pub/applications/textproc/Postscript directory on
ftp.germany.eu.net. 

-- 
_____________________________________________________
Andreas Joppich                      DeTeMobil GmbH
Phone +49-251-977-2943               Muenster
Fax   +49-251-977-2949               Germany
=====================================================

------------------------------


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