Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #777
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Sat, 5 Mar 94 19:13:06 EST

Linux-Misc Digest #777, Volume #1                 Sat, 5 Mar 94 19:13:06 EST

Contents:
  How to "use" files ending in .man? (Enrico Scotoni)
  Re: Got my "Linux Journal"! (dan@oea.hacktic.nl)
  Re: LSM project still alive? (Divya Sundaram)
  Re: Can I get Slackware 1.1.2 on CD-ROM? (Alan Osborne)
  Re: Idiot resistant "rm" (was: Re: I'm an idiot!!!! (rm -fr /usr)) (John F. Haugh II)
  Re: "Reverse-engineering" (John F. Haugh II)
  FreeBSD and Linux (Arthur D. Jerijian)
  Linux vs. Windows NT and OS/2 (Alex)
  Re: getting partitions to work (Also EIDE) (Robert F. Antoniewicz)
  What ever happened to QIC-80 tape drivers? (Joe Pannon)
  Re: I'm an idiot!!!! (rm -fr /usr) (Bouwmeester)
  Re: What causes Comanche to hang? (Daniel Damon Roscigno)
  Re: Smail security problems (HERE'S WHAT HAPPENED) (John F. Haugh II)
  Re: [q] Power PC and Linux? (root@jaxnet.com)
  Re: Got my "Linux Journal"! (Sean A. Long)
  UltraStor & 0.99p15 problem (Peter Kuiper)
  Re: Undefined symbol ___main for DLL tools? (Matthew J. Ryan)
  undefined symbol __IO_stderr_ (Robert A. Zawarski)
  Mail Order Linux Workstation Vendors (Edwin Tisdale)
  Help blocking a news thread PLEASE! (Karl Renaut)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 05 Mar 1994 10:01:00 MET
From: scoti@p46.keru.chg.imp.com (Enrico Scotoni)
Subject: How to "use" files ending in .man?

 > From: sundaram@egr.msu.edu (Divya Sundaram)


 > Hi all,

 > I have a few files that end in .man (like seyon.man) and I wanted to
 > find out how to "convert" them to true man files. When I try doing
 > man seyon all I get is a blank page!

 > I recall this has something to do with nroff or groff or troff or
 > somesuch but I'll be damned if I can remember how to work it.

cp seyon.man /usr/man/man1/seyon.1
                                 ^----- This is important
or make a link

Enrico.

---

------------------------------

From: dan@oea.hacktic.nl
Subject: Re: Got my "Linux Journal"!
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 1994 12:26:06 GMT

Phil Perucci (philp@universe.digex.net) wrote:
: The long wait is over.  My first issue of "Linux Journal" came in

Great news! This means that we, overseas subscribers, will get ours
next week.

: the mail today!  I understand they have over 22,000 subscribers!

I doubt this number, but I'll be happy to be proven wrong! My reason is
that an established journal like DDJ has roughly 80,000 subscribers.

Anyway, the number of LJ subscribers will be a good indicator of Linux
popularity. So if you haven't subscribed already, DO IT NOW. The price
is certainly right.

-- 
|< Dan Naas        dan@oea.hacktic.nl >|
+--------------------------------------+

------------------------------

From: sundaram@egr.msu.edu (Divya Sundaram)
Subject: Re: LSM project still alive?
Date: 4 Mar 1994 03:35:11 GMT

Hi all,

I have - on and off - been compiling my own Software Map. Most of this is 
stuff that is educational or engineering related ... and not just for Linux
but for X-Windows and for MS-Windows 3.x because these are the two most
popular platforms. I hope that in a week I will be able to post a copy of 
this listing. If I have time, I may try and revive LSM, but only time will
tell. In the meantime, if you have tools and utilities for Engineers, 
Scientists and Programmers please drop me a note so that I could include
it in the list. I will be posting this list to various newsgroups.

Thanks

Divya

------------------------------

From: alan@osborne.demon.co.uk (Alan Osborne)
Subject: Re: Can I get Slackware 1.1.2 on CD-ROM?
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 1994 15:12:17 +0000

3JJN3@QUCDN.QueensU.CA wrote:
: Yes you can get it, but you have to wait for until middle of
: next week. The CD has Slackware 1.1.2 and 1.1.1, can be directly
: installed. E-Mail christina@jana.com for more info or call
: 1-416-538-2311.

: Jay

Aaah.....

I paid for a year's subscription last year and only received the
first CDROM from jana.  

Anyone else ?

A.O._


------------------------------

From: jfh@rpp386 (John F. Haugh II)
Subject: Re: Idiot resistant "rm" (was: Re: I'm an idiot!!!! (rm -fr /usr))
Reply-To: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 1994 04:11:48 GMT

In article <1994Feb26.223517.15083@dxcern.cern.ch> danpop@cernapo.cern.ch (Dan Pop) writes:
>In <1994Feb26.145515.22550@rpp386> jfh@rpp386 (John F. Haugh II) writes:
>
>>      exit (0);
>>#ifdef        lint
>>      return (0);
>>#endif
>>}
>
>By replacing the first four lines with:
>
>       return 0;
>
>you get _exactly_ the same result.

I wrote the code 6 or 8 years ago, so I'm not sure about this, but
I believe I did that for a system where that assertion isn't true.
There have been systems where the EXIT status is something random
(or wrong) if you return from main() rather than exit.
-- 
John F. Haugh II  [ NRA-ILA ] [ Kill Barney ] !'s: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh
Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151 [GOP][DoF #17][PADI][ENTJ]   @'s: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org
 There are three documents that run my life: The King James Bible, the United
 States Constitution, and the UNIX System V Release 4 Programmer's Reference.

------------------------------

From: jfh@rpp386 (John F. Haugh II)
Subject: Re: "Reverse-engineering"
Reply-To: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 1994 04:28:01 GMT

In article <2kuq5j$e0p@crl2.crl.com> bhogan@crl.com (Bill Hogan) writes:
> I think we would all be much better off in the long run if, instead of
>investing time and money trying to extract short-term advantage from
>knowledge by keeping it secret as long as possible, we invested that same
>time and money into making knowledge equally available to anyone who wants
>it, and competed on the basis of the ability to *use* knowledge better. 

The problem with RMS's communist utopian version of informatin
socialism is that I have to earn a living in order to buy the "hard"
goods that it takes to live.  The time I spending earning a living
in some other arena, perhaps as a ditch digger, will take away from
the time I have to spend in such noble pursuits as "thinking".

In reality an "idea" has value just as a "process" or "hard" object
does.  And in a similar manner, that "idea" has a cost of
development.  Linus took "free" time and instead of earning money,
he wrote the Linux kernel.  The "value" of the ideas in Linux are,
at a minimum, the value of the time taken to create the kernel, and
at a maximum the value of the time or money its saves the users of
Linux.

The simple fact that the FSF has to rely so heavily on charity proves
the point -- there is no profit to be made in "hand holding" or
"consulting" or even "distribution" services as Stallman claims in his
GNU [Communist] Manifesto.  But the real world demands that we pay our
mortgages, children's doctor bills, and provide for our retirements.

Programming might be "fun" or "easy", but =good= programming is a quite
different matter.  Ever wonder why GCC or G++ oscillate between
"working" and "not working"?  There is no profit motive to keep them
working.  And there is no profit motive to make the compilers
compatible, reliable, etc. so you wind up with unique behaviors all
throughout GNUware.  Hell, I went to compile some Linux program on my
POSIX 1003.1 compliant, XPG/3 branded system and guess what -- it
didn't compile at all.  Such a deal ...
-- 
John F. Haugh II  [ NRA-ILA ] [ Kill Barney ] !'s: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh
Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151 [GOP][DoF #17][PADI][ENTJ]   @'s: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org
 There are three documents that run my life: The King James Bible, the United
 States Constitution, and the UNIX System V Release 4 Programmer's Reference.

------------------------------

From: jerijian@hurricane.seas.ucla.edu (Arthur D. Jerijian)
Subject: FreeBSD and Linux
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 1994 15:30:50 GMT

  What is the difference between FreeBSD (386BSD) and Linux?  Are they both
UNIX clones, and is one better than the other?
  Thank you very much for your help.

--
                Arthur D. Jerijian
                   School of Engineering and Applied Science
                   University of California, Los Angeles

       E-mail:  jerijian@hurricane.seas.ucla.edu
                izzy9cx@mvs.oac.ucla.edu



------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os2.misc
From: alex@ssc.com (Alex)
Subject: Linux vs. Windows NT and OS/2
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 1994 23:33:11 GMT

If you wonder what Linux, Windows NT and OS/2 are good for and how they
compare, there is an excellent article by Bernie Thompson on this subject
in the March, 1994 issue of Linux Journal.  It isn't a "mine is better
than yours" article but, instead, does a good job of showing the pluses
and minuses of each.

At some newsstands or $19/year from ACC Corp, P.O. Box 3364, Westport, CT
06880-8364.  Phone is +1 203-454-2582, 800-546-7274 in the US.  In Europe,
contact Lasermoon at +44 (0) 329 826444.  Or e-mail subscriptions@fylz.com
on the Internet.

------------------------------

From: antoniew@eagle.dfrf.nasa.gov (Robert F. Antoniewicz)
Subject: Re: getting partitions to work (Also EIDE)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 1994 07:58:47 GMT

>I thought the 1024 cylinder restriction was only a DOS one. So doesn't
>that push your largest drive to 65536 cylinders which is, what, 512 gig.
>That's ok :-)

I am running a Micropolis 2210A drive, and fdisk kept giving me 
messages about some programs might have problems with setting the 
number of cylinders above 1024.

Also, when I told fdisk that the last cylinder of the last partition
was 1891, the partition table showed a number below 1000 (around 820 
or 830 or something).  Can anyone explain this to me?  

Also, the new Extended  (Expanded?) IDE drive interface cards are coming 
out.  Does anyone know if these'll work with linux, or is there some 
drive lurking out there in the ether waiting for someone to put it 
into code?

I have heard that these controllers can handle up to 4 hard disks 
without the size limitations currently on IDE.

Thanks,

Bob

------------------------------

From: danubius@chinook.halcyon.com (Joe Pannon)
Subject: What ever happened to QIC-80 tape drivers?
Date: 4 Mar 1994 08:34:48 GMT

I haven't heard anything lately about ongoing efforts to develop drivers
for those QIC-80 tape drives so ubiquitous in the DOS world.  You know,
the ones running off the floppy controller ...

Maybe the timing problem of those drives is just too difficult to solve
under Linux, if not impossible.  However, I also seem to recall mention
of an alternate method of being able to use those drives to back up
Linux partitions.  The method mentioned was a simple one;  coming up
with a DOS driver for image backup of an entire partition, including
non-DOS partitions.  With this method one could concievably back up
Linux partitions after booting up into DOS.  Has anybody come up with
such a driver yet?

The image backup was quite common in the DOS world before the QIC format
took hold but it pretty much disappeared after that.  I would consider
such a capability to back up linux partitions now God-sent until I can
scrape up the money for a SCSI-based tape drive.

I figure I am not alone in this.

Joe Pannon

------------------------------

From: bouwmees@dutian.twi.tudelft.nl (Bouwmeester)
Subject: Re: I'm an idiot!!!! (rm -fr /usr)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 1994 08:44:27 GMT

dstevens@calc26.mps.ohio-state.edu (DOUGLAS M STEVENSON) writes:

>Ralph Loader (loader@maths.ox.ac.uk) wrote:
>> In article <2kpafk$i0@ifi.uio.no> kjetilho@ifi.uio.no (Kjetil Torgrim Homme) writes:
>>    +--- David Feldman:
>>    | Maybe I'll replace /bin/rm with a shell script that (if root and
>>    | more than one file in arglist) questions my intentions before going?
>>    +--------

>>    I think you are doing this at the wrong level. zsh has a nice feature
>>    - if the command is rm, and it detects a * (alone, not as part of a
>>    filespec) on the command line, it asks you for confirmation. Ie., the
>>    classic mistake "rm * ~" will be trapped. Of course, you can turn it
>>    off. tcsh may have this feature as well.

>> tcsh has this feature (you need to turn it on in your .tcshrc file), but it
>> only queries "rm *", as I learnt to my horror on typing "rm -rf foo *"
>> instead of "rm -rf foo*" once.  After this, I wrote a shell script that
>> worked as DF suggested, and aliased rm to it in my .tcshrc file.  Note that
>> it is important, I think, that the script is not called "rm", as else
>> non-interactive calls to "rm" may not work ...

>> R.

>If tcsh has this feature, then WHAT do you put in your .tcshrc file??

Put the following line into your .tcshrc file:
set rmstar  

That's all there is to it.

Ciao
        Leon

-- 
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Leon Bouwmeester            Delft University of Technology                  | 
|Phone : +31-(0)15-783588    Faculty of Technical Mathematics and Informatics|
|Fax   : +31-(0)15-787141    Julianalaan 132, 2628 BL, Delft                 |

------------------------------

From: ddr@beach.cis.ufl.edu (Daniel Damon Roscigno)
Subject: Re: What causes Comanche to hang?
Date: 4 Mar 1994 10:04:29 GMT

Sorry, I meant to post elsewhere. :(

Dan.

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
From: jfh@rpp386 (John F. Haugh II)
Subject: Re: Smail security problems (HERE'S WHAT HAPPENED)
Reply-To: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 1994 15:03:26 GMT

In article <1994Mar3.150939.27050@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de> thuerman@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (Urs Thuermann) writes:
>If you have a plain file with more than one link, the only way I know to
>find all refenrences is with "find <path> -inum <inode> -print" which
>can cause enormous disk (and with NFS network) activity if you search
>down from '/'.

Just a nit, but

find <mount point> -xdev -inum <inumber> -print

is much better.  It won't wander off across your NFS mounts or onto
other disks with the inumber may be in use for a completely unrelated
file.
-- 
John F. Haugh II  [ NRA-ILA ] [ Kill Barney ] !'s: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh
Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151 [GOP][DoF #17][PADI][ENTJ]   @'s: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org
 There are three documents that run my life: The King James Bible, the United
 States Constitution, and the UNIX System V Release 4 Programmer's Reference.

------------------------------

From: root@jaxnet.com
Subject: Re: [q] Power PC and Linux?
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 1994 06:51:44 GMT

In article <1994Feb25.131525.18629@sun0.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>,
Hannes Reinecke <hare@mathi.uni-heidelberg.de> wrote:
>JAMES HALL (ph99jh42@uwrf.edu) wrote:
>: Ok, I've scanned the newsgroups, and I haven't seen any mention of
>: this, so I suppose I'm the first (for whatever honor that is).  I'm
>: curious if anyone knows if Linux will be compatible with the Power PC
>: chips soon to come out.  Or rather, if the Power PC's will be
>: compatible with Linux...
>
>If the PowerPC are compatible with the [345]86 there should be no 
>problem ...
>But the main trick behind the PPC was NOT to be constrained by 
>backward compability, right ?
>
>: The reason I ask is that my physics department is thinking about
>: purchasing some Power PC machines, and I'd like to recommend Linux.
>
>You could ALWAYS recommend Linux ! :-)
>
>: Come to that, on what group can I learn more about Power PC's?
>
>Try comp.sys.powerpc ( or was it comp.hardware.powerpc ?? )
>
>Greetings from Heidelberg
>
>Hannes
>
>--
>Hannes Reinecke                             |
><hare@vogon.mathi.uni-heidelberg.de> |  XVII.: WHAT ?
>                                    |  
>PGP fingerprint available            |                 T.Pratchett: Small Gods
>see  'finger' for details           |          

There is no way Linux will work on a PowerPC!  The PowerPC uses a RISC
processor chip, completely incompatible with 386/486/P5 chips

------------------------------

From: longsa94%cs02@cadetmail.usafa.af.mil (Sean A. Long)
Subject: Re: Got my "Linux Journal"!
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 1994 19:37:05 GMT

>
>Anyway, the number of LJ subscribers will be a good indicator of Linux
>popularity. So if you haven't subscribed already, DO IT NOW. The price
>is certainly right.

I keep reading about how great LJ is, and recommendations to get it, but my 
newsserver was dead when the info on HOW to get it was posted...  How can I 
get it, and what is its price?

-=> Sean Long

------------------------------

From: pak7356@hertz.njit.edu (Peter Kuiper)
Subject: UltraStor & 0.99p15 problem
Date: 5 Mar 94 00:03:44 GMT


        I used a SLS (v1.03) with 0.99p12 kernel with no problem. After
upgrading the libc, libg++, kernel0.99p15, bin-utils, the new kernel
compiled without a problem. When booting the new kernel however I got the
following.

UltraStor driver version1.11 alpha. Using 16 SG lists.
scsi0 : UltraStor 14F/24F/34/F
scsi  : 1 hosts.
   Vendor: MAXTOR    Model: xt-8380S    Rev:B3CA
   Type:   Direct-Access                Ansi SCSI revision: 01 CCS
Detected scsi disk sda at scsi0, id0, lun0

    *** Everything fine sofar until;

scsi: reseting for second half of retries
US14F: reset: called.

Now it just sits there .....

The older kernel (0.99p12) goes right ahead and detects my second HD and
gives login prompt. The Second scsi drive is a seagate 296N on id1 (if
this info is needed)

I haved tried several kernel configurations to no avail.

                        Thanks in advance...

                        pak7356@hertz.njit.edu

------------------------------

From: ryanm4@elgreco.its.rpi.edu (Matthew J. Ryan)
Subject: Re: Undefined symbol ___main for DLL tools?
Date: 5 Mar 1994 18:42:39 GMT

In article <2l88c4$lic@usenet.rpi.edu>,
Matthew J. Ryan <ryanm4@hall104.its.rpi.edu> wrote:
>  I have been playing with the DLL tools-2.10, and I couldn't
>get any shared libraries to build.  So I tried building the
>example library, and it wouldn't build, either.

Another case of posting before thinking.  I have solved this 
problem, and I apologize for wasting bandwidth.  But, so this
isn't a total waste, here's the answer, for anyone who may
also have this problem:

I had recently upgraded my system to libc 4.5.19.  In the install
instructions, you are told to remove libgcc.*. But, that is 
precisely where the symbol ___main is located.  So I linked in
/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i486-linux/2.5.8/libgcc.a, and that fixed it.

- Matt
-- 
"Still looking for a funky quote..."
Matthew Ryan
ryanm4@rpi.edu

------------------------------

From: zawarski@girtab.usc.edu (Robert A. Zawarski)
Subject: undefined symbol __IO_stderr_
Date: 5 Mar 1994 14:15:33 -0800

Since upgrading to GCC 2.5.8 I have not been able to compile either
the new minicom or term114.. it seems to make all the dependency files
fine but when it tries to put it all together I get:

Undefined symbol __IO_stderr_ referenced from text segment

This happens with both programs... any ideas? 

Thanks. Rob.


------------------------------

From: edwin@maui.cs.ucla.edu (Edwin Tisdale)
Subject: Mail Order Linux Workstation Vendors
Date: Fri, 04 Mar 94 20:08:56 GMT

I have been keeping a list of "Mail Order Linux Workstation Vendors"
which I post from time to time in this and other newsgroups.
None of the three major mail order companies (AMBRA, Dell and Gateway)
that I contacted was willing to install Linux on any of the machines
that they sell so it is unclear which (if any) of their machines will
run Linux and the X Window System.  All of the vendors listed below
will install Linux on the machines that they sell but provide varying
amounts of support for it.  I have not dealt with any of these vendors
except 20/20 Technologies so I cannot recommend them to you.
But I have received numerous glowing testimonials for some of them
so perhaps people who have dealt with them will post a followup
to this article and tell us more about them.

Three vendors (20/20 Technologies, SW Technology and Fintronic USA, Inc.)
sell Pentium based workstations which run Linux and the X Window System.
A Linux workstation with a 60 MHz Pentium (P5 not P24) CPU is just
a little faster than a Sun SuperSPARC Model 41.  In order to get
a feel for the prices these vendors were charging, I asked each
vendor to give me a quote for the following configuration:

*       Intel 586DX-60 MHz Pentium CPU with heat sink and fan
*       30 MHz PCI-586 mother board with 256 kB cache
*       16 MB 70 ns system memory
*       540 MB 12 ms IDE hard disk drive
*       1.4 MB 3.5"  floppy disk drive
*       1.2 MB 5.25" floppy disk drive
*       PCI 1280 x 1024 1 MB Super VGA graphics card
*       15" 1024 x 768 0.28 mm dot pitch non-interlaced color monitor
*       Mid-size tower case and power supply
*       101 enhanced soft touch keyboard
*       3 button serial high resolution mouse
*       Linux operating system, X, C++, LaTeX, etc.
*       two year warranty

So far, only 20/20 Technologies and SW Technology have responded.
I also got a quote of $3225 from Gateway and $3800 from Dell
for the same system without Linux of course.  I didn't try AMBRA.

Enjoy, Bob Tisdale (edwin@cs.ucla.edu)

                20/20 Technologies
                1786 Westwood Boulevard
                West Los Angeles, CA 90024
                Tel: (310) 441-8855
                     (800) 486-2020
                Fax: (310) 441-8869
                Net: ahou@netcom.com
                Price: $3499
                Contact: Moujan Ahouraian

                Field Technology, Inc.
                33 Danbury Road
                Wilton, CT 06897
                Tel: (203) 761-9363
                Fax: (203) 761-9358
                BBS: (203) 761-9368
                Net: linux@fieldtech.com
                     fldtech!linux
                Price: - No response -

                K and K Systems
                PO Box 47804
                Plymouth, MN 55447-0804
                Tel: (612) 475-1527
                Fax: (612) 449-0488
                Net: gk@kksys.com
                     gk@kksys.mn.org
                Price: - No response -
                Contact: Greg Kemnitz

                SW Technology
                251 West Renner Suite 229
                Richardson, TX 75080
                Tel: (214) 907-0871
                Net: swt@netcom.com
                Price: $3399
                Contact: Marvin Wu

                Digital Designs
                2613 Hunt St.
                Ames, IA 50014
                Tel: (515) 296-0256
                Fax: (515) 292-3384
                Net: digdug@iastate.edu
                Price: - No response -
                Contact: Doug V. Tran

                Fintronic USA, Inc.
                1360 Willow Rd., Suite 205
                Menlo Park, CA 94025
                Tel: (415) 325-4474
                Fax: (415) 325-4908
                Net: linux@fintronic.com
                Price: $3820
                Contact: James Vera


------------------------------

From: Karl.Renaut%bbs@jaxnet.com (Karl Renaut)
Date: Tue, 01 Mar 94 13:42:47 GMT
Subject: Help blocking a news thread PLEASE!
Reply-To: Karl.Renaut%bbs@jaxnet.com (Karl Renaut)

First I would like to apologize for the generic unix question in the Linux
news groups.  It seems that most of my posts to the generic unix news groups
get ignored and I would like to thank all of the great Linux users that are
so willing to help me even with my dumbest questions.  So, down to business.
If I see one more post in reply to "GOD SPEAKS ON LINUX" I think I will
scream!  How can I block this news thread (and other flame wars) on my
system?
--
Karl Renaut
Karl.Renaut%bbs@jaxnet.com

------------------------------


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