Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #781
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Sun, 6 Mar 94 16:13:19 EST

Linux-Misc Digest #781, Volume #1                 Sun, 6 Mar 94 16:13:19 EST

Contents:
  Re: Route under SLIP (Kai Petzke)
  Re: / vs /usr (Lars Wirzenius)
  Re: Linux Manuals? (Lars Wirzenius)
  Re: Putting together a couple Debian packages... (Timo Korvola)
  Re: [Q]: SMC ULTRA Ethernet card (Mika Jalava)
  Linux mailing list? (Albert C H Ho)
  Linux on a Notebook (any gothas?) (Frank P. Bresz }*{)
  Re: Smail security problems (HERE'S WHAT HAPPENED) (Matthew Dillon)
  Mosaic 2.1 is way too cool ! ! ! (Chris D. Johnston)
  Re: writing to a *linux* floppy (khockenb@vaxc.stevens-tech.edu)
  Re: pronunciation of linux (Mark A. Davis)
  soup-reader for linux. (J|rn Lok|y)
  Re: [q] Power PC and Linux? (Byron A Jeff)
  Re: Can I get Slackware 1.1.2 on CD-ROM? (Dan Wilder)
  Emacs/Slackware BUG (Pete Berger)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: wpp@marie.physik.tu-berlin.de (Kai Petzke)
Subject: Re: Route under SLIP
Date: 4 Mar 94 23:20:35 GMT

michael@softwords.bc.ca (Michael McAleese) writes:

>   All is now fine, I can ping, telnet, ftp and so forth.  Things look fine
>until some time later (usually after some period of network inactivity),
>there is a "click" from the modem and the routing table is blank.  I can
>kill dip and restart everything again, and it works once more.

Isn't this a problem with your modem?  Maybe you, or the site you
call, have set up the modems to automatically hang up after some
time of inactivity.

Your dip might recognise this, and issue some totally stupid
"route del" commands, which blank your routing table.
-- 
Kai Petzke <wpp@marie.physik.tu-berlin.de>
Advertisement by Microsoft in a well-known German magazine:
        If you don't like our programmes, then make your own ones.
However, they expect you to use Microsoft products for this -:)

------------------------------

From: wirzeniu@plootu.Helsinki.FI (Lars Wirzenius)
Subject: Re: / vs /usr
Date: 4 Mar 1994 10:25:56 +0200

barr@pop.psu.edu (David Barr) writes:
> The solution is easy.  Move all of /bin into /usr/bin.
> Make /bin a symlink to /usr/bin.  Put static copies of
> init, ifconfig, mount, bash, and any other bootstrapping
> binaries in /sbin.  Have NO binaries in /etc.  Have symlinks
> for traditional binaries found there to /usr/etc.  Leave the
> root filesystem for host-specific configuration files and
> enough binaries to get it to the point where it can mount /usr.

Unless I have misunderstood, the FSSTND in no way prevents anyone
from doing this.  The result is still conforming to the FSSTND.

> If for adminstrative reasons you want to be able to be more
> self-sufficient in case /usr fails or is unavailable, then put
> static copies of binaries like fsck, tar, mv and cp in /sbin.

Those static copies make the root partition way too big, IMHO.

> That way those with diskless and dataless configurations
> are happier, and backups of host-specific files are easier and
> smaller since you just can back up the root filesystem without having
> to manually include or exclude files.

But people with no need for diskless and dataless configurations
(most of us) are less happy, since it complicates things for them.
An old optimization problem: should one optimize for the common
case, or for the especially troublesome special case?  As it is now,
the FSSTND is optimized more for the common case, in that it is for
the special case that needs more work by the distribution provider
and/or the system administrator.

--
Lars.Wirzenius@helsinki.fi  (finger wirzeniu@klaava.helsinki.fi)
My name is Ozymandias, king of kings/Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!

------------------------------

From: wirzeniu@plootu.Helsinki.FI (Lars Wirzenius)
Subject: Re: Linux Manuals?
Date: 4 Mar 1994 10:36:50 +0200

Alex Feely <af2e+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>       I saw in the Distribution-HOWTO an ad for various Linux
> manuals, among them a Linux Administrator's Manual for $30. What is
> the difference between this and the book 'Essential System
> Administration' by O'Reilly & Associates, Inc, a 'Nutshell Handbook'?
>       Does Linux require it's own administrator's guide? Also does
> anyone know the quality of that book...

Linux shouldn't require its own administrator's guide.  However,
I'm writing one anyway, so that it can have a free one (free in the
FSF sense, i.e. freely distributable, not necessarily free of cost,
although my book will always be available in source via ftp so it
can be gratis as well).  I'm not going to say much about the
quality of my book (that's rather hard, as it is rather unfinished
still).  There is an ALPHA-1 version available on the ftp sites;
I don't think anyone is selling printed copies of this.  If they are,
they might be doing their customers a disservice (yes, it's that
unfinished).

However, what you saw was probably an ad for the Linux Network
Administrator's Guide, by Olaf Kirch.  That one is ready (although
will be updated, of course), and I hear that it is quite good.
(I know too little of networking to comment, but it seemed quite
good when I browsed it.)

--
Lars.Wirzenius@helsinki.fi  (finger wirzeniu@klaava.helsinki.fi)
My name is Ozymandias, king of kings/Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!

------------------------------

From: tkorvola@dopey.hut.fi (Timo Korvola)
Subject: Re: Putting together a couple Debian packages...
Date: 04 Mar 1994 13:49:40 GMT
Reply-To: Timo.Korvola@hut.fi

In article <2kqqjj$ems@spool.cs.wisc.edu> jimr@shorty.cs.wisc.edu (Jim Robinson) writes:

   1) Math package: I am putting together a math package for the Debian
   distribution of Linux, and want to know what math packages people
   would like to see.  Even if you don't use Debian, but do think a
   particular application is good, please tell me.  So far I have found
   Octave, GNUPlot, xlispstat (is there a better one around?), oleo, and
   calc for emacs.

RLaB is another language for numerical computations.  Unlike Octave,
RLaB doesn't try to mimic Matlab, but instead makes some different, and
oftern saner, choices in the language (e.g. you can define functions
without the .m-file hassle).  RLaB uses Gnuplot to do graphics.

I don't know if there is a Linux binary available, but compiling it
wasn't much of a problem.

Emacs Calc is ok, but it should really be converted to use Emacs 19
native floating point.  I think there is a version that works with
Emacs 19 (the keymap stuff has been patched), although it still
doesn't take advantage of the floating point support.  Suggestions for
a good free CAS are always welcome.
--
        Timo Korvola            Timo.Korvola@hut.fi

------------------------------

From: mjalava@ahti.hut.fi (Mika Jalava)
Subject: Re: [Q]: SMC ULTRA Ethernet card
Date: 4 Mar 1994 14:14:19 GMT

In article <1994Mar2.123115@rzri6f.gsi.de>,
Gabor Papp <papp@rzri6f.gsi.de> wrote:

>I just had bad experience with the new SMC ULTRA cards with the NCSA telnet
>software for PC. (The configuration is totally changed compared to the WD8003)
>Has anybody any experience with Linux? (8003 worked fine, but can the kernel
>handle the SMC ULTRA?)

The kernel can handle it and the card seems to be very reliable and
quite fast. I can recommend it. We use one in our Linux file server,
so it gets quite a lot of traffic.

        Mika

------------------------------

From: cheukho@aludra.usc.edu (Albert C H Ho)
Subject: Linux mailing list?
Date: 4 Mar 1994 16:29:30 -0800

Is there any linux mailing listing exist in the network?
I'd like to be informed of new release of linux software and bugs
founded in the old version.

Please reply by mail.
Thanks.

------------------------------

From: fpb@fore.com (Frank P. Bresz }*{)
Subject: Linux on a Notebook (any gothas?)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 1994 17:07:15 GMT



I am looking into getting a notebook probably an NEC40e.  Anyone ever
try to put LINUX on this?  I am probably not going to do it right away
but am interested in getting a dual boot into DOS/WfW3.11.  

Any suggestions please send mail as I do not normally read this group.

Like should I get something different because this won't work well or
whatever.  I have not yet made up my mind 100%.

                                        FPB }*{
--

                                        Frank P. Bresz }*{

------------------------------

From: dillon@apollo.west.oic.com (Matthew Dillon)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Re: Smail security problems (HERE'S WHAT HAPPENED)
Date: 4 Mar 1994 23:33:06 -0800

In article <2l8huh$3t4@mechti.wupper.de> thomasm@mechti.wupper.de (Thomas Mechtersheimer) writes:
:jew@linux.anthro.arizona.edu writes:
:>smail should not be SUID root, but SGID mail.
:
:I guess that's a bad idea:
:In this case, the directories under /usr/spool/smail should be writable
:by group mail; so anyone using a sgid mail program like 'elm' can fake
:mails, change the log files, or cause a lot of other problems :-(
:
:   Thomas
:
:-- 
:Thomas Mechtersheimer  -  Zum Hasenkampsplatz 1  -  D-42553 Velbert  -  Germany
:EMail: thomasm@mechti.wupper.de                                IRC-Nick: Mechti
:There's only one girl that I will ever love      And that was so many years ago
:And though I know I'll never get her out of my heart    She never loved me back

    Not to mention the fact that incomming mail can't be processed if 
    sendmail/smail doesn't run as root (it wouldn't be able to create
    user-owned files or change its uid/gid to deal with mailbox 
    files, .forward's, etc... in a secure manner)

    I've been thinking about how to run sendmail non-root, and it CAN
    be done.

    (1) Create a special user called 'sendmail', and create a special
        group called 'sendmail' that is the only group the 'sendmail'
        user is in.

    (2) Create a special group called 'mail' which no one is in, 
        not even user sendmail.

    (3) Write a setuid-root wrapper which runs the sendmail program
        under uid sendmail and group mail.  Call this wrapper 
        /usr/lib/sendmail.  You can't make the sendmail program itself 
        setuid-sendmail because it would then have to be owned by 
        sendmail, meaning it could be subverted.  Also note that
        this wrapper is the ONLY way to gain group-mail access to
        a user-sendmail program, and it only gives it to sendmail.

    (4) /etc/inetd.conf runs the sendmail wrapper.  You can't run
        sendmail as a daemon because there is no way as user-sendmail
        that it can gain access to port 25 to listen on.

    (5) Write an auxillary program that is set-gid mail that a user
        can run to create mbox files (it is impossible for sendmail
        to create any file for the user).  This program would create
        the file with group 'mail' and permissions 660 so sendmail
        can append to it.  Any mbox file the user creates must be
        accessible by sendmail.  i.e. directory permissions of at
        least world-executable.  The program is safe because it still
        runs under the user's uid (also see below).

    (6) Write an auxillary program that is setuid-root whos sole
        function is to create an empty file in /usr/spool/mail
        with the proper ownership (owner=<user>, group=mail, perms=660),
        that sendmail can run to create a user's spool file when
        none exists.

        --> this is a mod to sendmail/smail that you would have to make <--

    (7) Remove piping from sendmail.  Pipes have to go because it is
        not possible for sendmail to change its uid to execute a
        program as another user, and writing a setuid-root program to
        do is causes a security hole so massive that you might as
        well run sendmail as  root.

        --> this is a mod to sendmail/smail that you would have to make <--

    (8) Note that NONE of the configuration or executable files are
        actually owned by the 'sendmail' user.  Barring other security
        holes the worse someone can do if they break into the 'sendmail'
        user is to munge mailboxes, spool files, and mqueue.   (Of
        course, realistically, if someone actually obtains a shell on
        your system, your in trouble no matter what)

    (9) Note that the group ownership of the /usr/spool/mail and 
        /usr/spool/mqueue directories is 'sendmail', NOT 'mail', and
        have permissions 775 and 770 respectively.  These directories
        would be owned by root.  This prevents users from creating 
        'mbox' files in /usr/spool, amoung other things :-), and
        prevents sendmail from removing or renaming the directories.

    An alternative to #(6) is to just let sendmail create sendmail-owned
    files in /usr/spool and have a setuid-root daemon fixup their
    ownership, and for #(7) to pray that sendmail/smail properly detect
    that they are unable to switch users and give an error for pipes.
    This way you can avoid any mods to sendmail.

    Remember, the idea is to limit damage if someone somehow gets
    control of the 'sendmail' user.

    Some people may find this too restrictive for their tastes, but I
    believe it would work.  What setuid-root programs are necessary
    are so limited in scope that they would be essentially risk-free.

    I HAVE NOT TESTED THIS!  Who knows whether it's viable.


                                        -Matt

-- 

    Matthew Dillon              dillon@apollo.west.oic.com
    1005 Apollo Way
    Incline Village, NV. 89451  ham: KC6LVW (no mail drop)
    USA                         Sandel-Avery Engineering (702)831-8000
    [always include a portion of the original email in any response!]


------------------------------

From: chris@surfcty.surfcty.com (Chris D. Johnston)
Subject: Mosaic 2.1 is way too cool ! ! !
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 1994 18:12:35 GMT

I saw erik's (ewk@sunsite.unc.edu) post on some new files
that are at sunsite.  So, poking around where the Mosaic
stuff is, I pulled down the Mosaic 2.1 binary.

I do not know who got it to compile, but they made more
headway that me.  In any case, it works quite well.
I was very impressed with the Linux version.

Now, I can Mosaic on my Macintosh and Linux box.  All
I have left to do is to figure out the Windows version.

Chris

-- 
===============================================================
Chris D. Johnston  Surf City Software, Orange, CA  714/289-8543
chris@surfcty.com                             fax: 714/289-1002 


------------------------------

From: khockenb@vaxc.stevens-tech.edu
Subject: Re: writing to a *linux* floppy
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 1994 05:58:47 GMT

In article <1994Feb26.203603.11235@belvedere.sbay.org>, root@belvedere.sbay.org (David E. Fox) writes:
> This begs a question:
> 
> Why do people insist on making little mount point directories like 
> /floppy, /dos, /a, etc., when a perfectly good mount point most likely
> exists in their filesystems for just this purpose?
> 
> BTW, it's called /mnt.

Well, I can't answer for other people, but in my case I have a /dos 
because /mnt is meant to be a *temporary* mount point, and keep my DOS 
partition permanently mounted.  /floppy exists for those times I'm using 
/mnt to nfs mount the machine I keep my linux archive on (a vax running 
ultrix) and copy straight to floppy over the network.

-Kurt Hockenbury

------------------------------

From: mark@taylor.wyvern.com (Mark A. Davis)
Subject: Re: pronunciation of linux
Date: Sun, 06 Mar 1994 17:37:33 GMT

kjetilho@ifi.uio.no (Kjetil Torgrim Homme) writes:

>+--- Kevin Lentin:
>| I always presumed linux would be pronounced similarly to Linus which
>| I pronounce as desribed above. I'd love a definitive answer.

>Linus -> /'li:nus/ or "Lee-noos" in English approximation (note that
>         the 's' is not voiced, and the 'l' is "clear", like in "leaf")

>Linux is then /'li:nuks/ or "Lee-nooks".

>The vocal quality of "u" can vary in much the same way "u" does. Hope
>this helps :-)

Well, I have to agree with previous the previous poster pointing out how
incredibly awkward that is for English speakers :)  I'm glad to know
what the most "proper" way is to say it, but I think I will have to
continue calling it  /'Lie-nucks/.  Besides, it matches the English 
pronunciation of Linus and Unix combined...

-- 
  /--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
  | Mark A. Davis    | Lake Taylor Hospital | Norfolk, VA (804)-461-5001x431 |
  | Sys.Administrator|  Computer Services   | mark@taylor.wyvern.com   .uucp |
  \--------------------------------------------------------------------------/

------------------------------

From: jorn@oslonett.no (J|rn Lok|y)
Subject: soup-reader for linux.
Date: 6 Mar 1994 20:10:21 +0100

Does anyone know if there is a soup-reader available for
Linux/Unix...?

-jorn-

------------------------------

From: byron@cc.gatech.edu (Byron A Jeff)
Subject: Re: [q] Power PC and Linux?
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 1994 19:55:37 GMT

In article <CLz4E8.359@jaxnet.com>,  <root@jaxnet.com> wrote:
>In article <1994Feb25.131525.18629@sun0.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>,
>Hannes Reinecke <hare@mathi.uni-heidelberg.de> wrote:
>>JAMES HALL (ph99jh42@uwrf.edu) wrote:

>There is no way Linux will work on a PowerPC!  The PowerPC uses a RISC
>processor chip, completely incompatible with 386/486/P5 chips

There is no way Linux will work on an Amiga. The Amiga uses a 68030
processor chip, completely incompatible with 386/486/P5 chips.

Wait, you say there is a linux distribution for 68k machines? Now how'd
that happen??!! You mean the machine dependant and machine independant
parts of the kernel were separated? Now how'd they do that?!?!

A PowerPC port is possible. PowerMacs will offer a level of price/performance
that cannot be ignored. 

The biggest problem is that to port anything you must have the machine. Since
PowerMacs aren't out yet, it's a big problem.

The easiest way to get a port is to get the machine in question into the
hands of someone that can do the job. Like Linus maybe. He's already done
it once with what was essentially a playtoy. Imagine if he had a shiny new
PowerMac sitting on his desk. He probably couldn't resist.

The essential tool is a PowerPC C compiler. GCC would have to step up to the
plate. I heard there was a PowerPC (RS6000) back end. Has anyone tested it?

Later,

BAJ
---
Another random extraction from the mental bit stream of...
Byron A. Jeff - PhD student operating in parallel!
Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332   Internet: byron@cc.gatech.edu

------------------------------

From: danw@hebron.connected.com (Dan Wilder)
Subject: Re: Can I get Slackware 1.1.2 on CD-ROM?
Date: 6 Mar 1994 12:10:59 -0800

<3JJN3@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:

>A TSX-11 CD is on the way for all the subscribers, Watch the c.o.l.announce
>for the news this week.

>Jay

>PS : I do not work there full time, E-Mail christina@jana.com for any info
>you need.

Or, you could just go to Walnut Creek CDROM, which is the primary
repository for Slackware (as I understand it), anyway.  To browse 
their stuff (or download it if you care to) do anonymous ftp to 
ftp.cdrom.com.  It seems like I saw their sales contact information
when I was last in there.  If you don't have ftp access, maili
info@cdrom.com or call them at 1-800-786-9907.

No relation to Walnut Creek, just a happy Slackware user who wishes
he had a CDROM drive.  Sure gets tiresome feeding all those floppies.

---
Dan Wilder



------------------------------

From: peterb@foxholly.lm.com (Pete Berger)
Subject: Emacs/Slackware BUG
Date: 6 Mar 1994 15:56:26 -0500

Well, it's not so much a bug as an oversight.  In the official slackware 
1.1.2 distribution of Emacs the "default" binary is an X11 binary, and 
then there is a "no-X" package which apparently is just the executable 
file compiled without X-support.

The problem here is that in a non-X version of emacs, not only the 
binary, but the support files differ.  In particular, the file 
DOC-19.22.1, which contains the descriptions of functions and variables 
will give you garbage if invoked with a non-Xbinary.  Try hitting ^h 
three times -- it will provide you with half of a description of 
set-auto-mode, rather than help-for-help.

The solution is to get the emacs sources and recompile them.  If anyone 
doesn't want to do this, and is interested in a DOC-19.22.1 file that 
will work with non-X emacs, email me and I will send you mine.

I have not yet found any other support files that this applies to, but 
that doesn't mean they don't exist.

I would also be interested in hearing from anyone who has successfully 
compiled non-X emacs under kernel .99pl15f, libc 4.5.19 -- even after 
applying the patches, all I get is a seg. fault.  

Thanks, everybody!

Peter Berger
Telerama Public Access Internet

------------------------------


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