Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #798
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Fri, 11 Mar 94 23:13:09 EST

Linux-Misc Digest #798, Volume #1                Fri, 11 Mar 94 23:13:09 EST

Contents:
  Re: pronunciation of linux (Jay Maynard)
  Re: Multiple screen feature in Linux? (H.J. Lu)
  Network support changes? (Deryk Barker)
  Re: SoftPC/Linux? (Byron A Jeff)
  Re: Does zless exist? (Hal N. Brooks)
  Re: compiler quality (was "Reverse-engineering") (Nate Williams)
  Re: compiler quality (was "Reverse-engineering") (Nate Williams)
  Re: Linux Journal (Rene COUGNENC)
  Re: "Reverse-engineering" (Bernard URBAN)
  Re: File System for Both (Charles Hannum)
  Re: Mosaic 2.2 problems (Jorge Nunes)
  MPEG-II audio player for Linux? (John Brehm)
  Re: Notebook (Re: BSD vs. Linux) (Terry Lambert)
  Re: OpenGL on Linux? (Michael De La Rue)
  Re: "Reverse-engineering" (Thomas G. McWilliams)
  Re: Linux Journal (Garrett D'Amore)
  Re: Amiga as X Terminal (Andrew Martin)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jmaynard@nyx10.cs.du.edu (Jay Maynard)
Subject: Re: pronunciation of linux
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 94 23:53:39 GMT

In article <1994Mar7.150203.11288@midway.uchicago.edu>,
Richard L. Goerwitz <goer@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
>The first vowel in _even_ is not appreciably longer than the i-vowel in
>_linear_.

Maybe to you, but there's quite a bit of difference when this Texan says 
them...

>Every language has its Sprachgefuehl,

Gesundheit.

>It is possible for an English speaker to pronounce _Linux_ correctly.  But
>it doesn't sound "right."  And it seems "hard to say."

No better and no worse than, say, a Texan mangling Russian...

>  Really, it doesn't
>matter all that much, though.  Harping on people for saying a word this way
>or that is just too typical of this forum....

I don't know...after all, we're in a field that values precision of expression 
above lots of other things. Personally, I've been saying <Texas accent on> 
"Lye-nuks" <Texas accent off>, but I'm not married to the idea...
--
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by stupidity.
"The difference between baseball and politics is that, in baseball, if you
               get caught stealing, you're out!" -- Ed Shanks

------------------------------

From: hjl@nynexst.com (H.J. Lu)
Subject: Re: Multiple screen feature in Linux?
Date: 11 Mar 1994 13:45:03 GMT

In article <CMGL8L.8KM@erin.utoronto.ca>, e01jjymo@tuzo.erin (Paul) writes:
|> 
|> Hi,
|> 
|> In SCO Xenix, Alt-Function key allows to change to different
|> screens.  I am just wondering if there is multiple screen 
|> features in Linux?
|> Thanks
|> 
|> Paul

We call it virtual console.


H.J.

------------------------------

From: dbarker@turing.camosun.bc.ca (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Network support changes?
Reply-To: dbarker@camosun.bc.ca
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 03:10:31 GMT


Somewhere between pl12 (which I am running now) and pl15 something
seems to have changed with regard to ethernet support.

I loaded the pl15(g?) kernel, compiled it and booted from floppy.
Everything was fine until rc.net, when I got a 'network unreachable
error'. By everything I include my ethercard's being correctly
identified, IRQ and port address just as before.

I posted in comp.linux.help and got mail from several poeople saying
they had the same problem and could I let them know what I found. So
far I have heard nothing else, except a suggestion to get the latest
pl15 or the pre-1.0.

So I got the pre-1.0 and guess what - same problem.

Some of my students tried to upgrade from pl12 to pl14 and had similar
problems. So - has anything in ifconfig or somewhere similar been
changed? Anybody any ideas?

--
Deryk.
=================================================================
|Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept.   | Without music, life   |
|Camosun College, Victoria, BC, Canada  | would be a mistake    |
|email: dbarker@camosun.bc.ca           |                       |
|phone: +1 604 370 4452                 | (Friedrich Nietzsche).|
=================================================================

------------------------------

From: byron@cc.gatech.edu (Byron A Jeff)
Subject: Re: SoftPC/Linux?
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 15:14:22 GMT

In article <1994Mar11.093920.6252@mpifr-bonn.mpg.de>,
Frank Grieger <fg@spcklr.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de> wrote:
>In <1994Mar10.162031.15340@taylor.wyvern.com> mark@taylor.wyvern.com (Mark A. Davis) writes:
>
>>david@wubios.wustl.edu (David J Camp) writes:
>
>>>In article <1994Mar9.214309.67781@yuma> jmiller@terra.colostate.edu (Jeff Miller) writes:
>
>>>There is a product called "Locus Merge" that does this (PC emulation) quite 
>>>well.  I
>
>>Actually, VERY well.  I would think Merge would be easier to port to Linux
>>than SoftPC....
>
>Hi,
>
>what's "Locus Merge" anyway. Commercial or GPL software. If it's GPL software
>please tell a ftp site (if availble).

You know I'm missing something in all this. This thread is having a
discussion about DOS emulation for Linux as if it didn't already exist.
Why is that?

Both SoftPC and Locus Merge are commercial products that run an a bunch
of platforms including SunOS, Solaris, SCO, and other Unixes. There is
no market for a Linux based DOS emulator for 3 reasons:

1) It already exist (DOSEMU 0.50) 
2) Commercial companies won't usually attack a market unless there
   is a demonstrated need. Both Linux small population, unstable system,
   and raft of free software makes it an undesireable target except in
   very specialized cases (for example Metrolink's Motif for Linux).
3) All PC based Linux boxes have the potential to run DOS directly.

SoftPC is designed to give DOS applications the ability to run where they
couldn't run before. That's why it runs on Sparcs, MACS and PowerPC.
Solaris for Intel was gratis and exist for the same reason that DOSEMU does:
it's sometimes useful to run a DOS apps occasionally without having to reboot
and losing all the good features of Linux, multitasking, X, networking, etc.
It also gives the ability for multiple DOS apps to run on the same machine
at the same time, even by different users.

So if you want a better DOS interface why not offer to help out with DOSEMU
and WINE (The upcoming Linux Windows Emulator). With your help they can be
made to work as well as the commercial products but will be free. Now you
can't beat that.

DOSEMU is available at tsx-11.mit.edu:/pub/linux/ALPHA/dosemu.
WINE is not yet publicly available. Contact Bob at bob@amscons.com for more
info.

My apologies if I've missed something in the discussion.

BAJ
---
Another random extraction from the mental bit stream of...
Byron A. Jeff - PhD student operating in parallel!
Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332   Internet: byron@cc.gatech.edu

------------------------------

From: hal@pollux.cs.uga.edu (Hal N. Brooks)
Subject: Re: Does zless exist?
Date: 11 Mar 1994 13:37:11 GMT
Reply-To: hal@pollux.cs.uga.edu (Hal N. Brooks)

In article <1994Mar11.124237.24712@sun0.urz.uni-heidelberg.de> geyer@urania.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de (Helmut Geyer) writes:
>Andreas Helke (andreas@orion.mgen.uni-heidelberg.de) wrote:
>:>Charles W. Blumreich (cwblumre@major.cs.mtu.edu) wrote:
>:>: Phillip Hardy (phillip@mserve.kiwi.gen.nz) wrote:
>:>: :->i have been playing with my system and i realy like compressed
>:>: :->Faq files now to read them all i have to do is.
>:>: :->zcat LINUX-FAQ.gz | more
>:>: :->and Vola i can read/search the faqs without takeing 
>:>: :->up late-amounts of hdd space :)
>
>:>: not to be critical, but what's wrong with zmore?
>
>:>This is one of the less commonly known programs. I did not realize that
>:>I have it until now. But I do not like more because of it's one way nature.
>:>Therefore I have to use zcat * | less. I could probably write a shellsript
>:>with the name zless which automates this process. 
>
>zmore _is_ a shell script that does just zcat $* | more. Change more to
>less and it will work.

Wait!  It gets even easier!  zmore is a shell script which uses
${PAGER-more}, so set and export your PAGER environment variable
to less, and your wish will be it command!

And don't forget, if you get a panic, you've got the kernel source handy!

-hal

------------------------------

From: nate@bsd.coe.montana.edu (Nate Williams)
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: compiler quality (was "Reverse-engineering")
Date: 11 Mar 94 19:07:04 GMT

In article <2linvj$7ue@fitz.tc.cornell.edu>,
Elan Feingold <elan@tasha.cheme.cornell.edu> wrote:
>
>> Sorry to be so long-winded, but I get the impression that some people
>> think these products are just tossed out the door when it suits someone's
>> whim. 
>
>One of the nice things about gcc is that when a bug is found, it gets fixed
>pronto.

You haven't had much experience with reporting bugs and having them
fixed in GCC, have you?  There are still bugs that exist that existed
from gcc2.4 in gcc2.5.  They may be difficult to fix, or they may be
'less important' to folks to fix, but there are none-the-less bugs that
aren't fixed.



Nate
-- 
nate@bsd.coe.montana.edu     |  FreeBSD core member and all around tech.
nate@cs.montana.edu          |  weenie.
work #: (406) 994-4836       |  Graduating May '94 with a BS in EE 
home #: (406) 586-0579       |  - looking for work in CS/EE field.

------------------------------

From: nate@bsd.coe.montana.edu (Nate Williams)
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: compiler quality (was "Reverse-engineering")
Date: 11 Mar 1994 19:09:47 GMT

In article <2lp943$f58@hebron.connected.com>,
Joe Portman <baron@hebron.connected.com> wrote:
>In article <1994Mar11.015113.20792@rpp386|,
>John F. Haugh II <jfh@rpp386.cactus.org| wrote:
>|And if I'm a grocery store with no access to "the net", how do I get
>|support?
>
>Get REAL jfh. ANYBODY can get net access, ANYWHERE. Somehow, someway, they can.

Tell that to folks who program in Montana, who haven't heard of the
internet let alone can't find a network connection at all.  Tell that to
folks in third-world countries who CAN'T get network access but can buy
Turbo-C for cheap who are still users and who can get support from Borland.

Realize that the world isn't millions of folks trapped in big-cities.


Nate

-- 
nate@bsd.coe.montana.edu     |  FreeBSD core member and all around tech.
nate@cs.montana.edu          |  weenie.
work #: (406) 994-4836       |  Graduating May '94 with a BS in EE 
home #: (406) 586-0579       |  - looking for work in CS/EE field.

------------------------------

From: rene@renux.frmug.fr.net (Rene COUGNENC)
Subject: Re: Linux Journal
Date: 9 Mar 1994 12:59:47 GMT
Reply-To: cougnenc@itesec.ensta.fr (Rene COUGNENC)

Ce brave Thierry Felt ecrit:


>       Well, I'm in FRANCE (yes the country !!!) and still waiting....
> for my copy.

I've got Linux Journal in France on last Friday. (Herve Schauer had AFUU
buy some copies for the Linux activists here in Paris).

It is a great journal, and I'll post my subscription soon !


                                                        Amities, Rene

--
 linux linux linux linux -[ cougnenc@renux.frmug.fr.net ]- linux linux linux 

------------------------------

From: urban@hathor.meteo.fr (Bernard URBAN)
Subject: Re: "Reverse-engineering"
Date: 11 Mar 1994 16:16:32 GMT


   In article <1994Mar8.170350.1@vaxc.stevens-tech.edu> p1nadeau@vaxc.stevens-tech.edu writes:
   >        Nobody is going to be researching advances into IBM compilers in 
   their>free time. "Lots 'n' lots" of people will be researching Gnuware in 
   their free>time. The idea is that the free time of us commie programmers far 
   exceeds the>paid time of those IBM deckslaves.

   You seem to have little idea of what is involved in "research".  I can't
   remember if Chaitin won the ACM Turing award (computer science's top
   annual award), but Backus did, to name two of IBM's compiler developers.

Yes, during the 1950', IBM had really a leading edge in technology.
But did an IBM guy won such an award for some recent work ??

   The number of people who are capable of improving GCC's parsing or code
   generation is far, far, smaller than the number of its users.

That is right.

   [ deleted ]

   OS/360 was a massive success, technically _and_ commercially.

As with DOS, it was a commercially success because there was no
other way to go.

   OS/360 is probably what's driving your payroll (if you work for a 
   living, which I doubt). OS/360 was so advanced that modern microkernels
   and RISCs have more in common with it than with PDP-11s, Vaxes, BSD Unix
   and suchlike.  People have claimed innovations for RISC that have been 
   in OS/360 all along (some people seem to think that all early computers
   looked like a Vax).

If I remember well, it was on the 360 that the concept of micro-code
was implemented the first time ?? This is exactly the contrary of RISC !!!
Also, RISC is a hardware concept, not an operating system one.

   Also, top managers don't write books about their failures!

   >        Some of the postulates state that informality increases productivity.
   >The best debugging takes place after-hours in a machine room, where the
   >programmers can relax despite the large amounts of caffeine present simply
   >because the 9-to-5 pressure is off. In the FSF paradigm, software is developed
   >in a COMPLETELY informal environment, becoming formal only after the maintainers
   >of the code freeze a release.

   Really?  What about Linux changes made hurriedly as a result of 
   breakages in production environments?  Or are you saying Linux works
   100% correctly in production environments?

All my professionnal work was done since 1 year with Linux,
in a X-Windows and TCP/IP networking environment.
Fewer problems than before with commercial products.

   >        Another suggestion made by Brooks is that programmers be given a
   >"playpen" area to fool with their code before its sent to the integrators. The
   >size of the "playpen" for any given FSF project is astronomical compared to the
   >tiny little development labs of IBM.

   In size but not variety.  The fact that Linux doesn't support MCA, and

Who cares about MCA ?

   doesn't talk AppleTalk or NetWare, just shows how limited the scope of
   most peoples' "play" really is.  IBM (or Microsoft or Novell) don't
   test things on a few thousand Dell 386s; they get lots of different
   stuff, plug it all together, and fix the bits that break.

   [ deleted ]

   So when can we expect Linux v1.0?

Probably before one month.
But release numbers do not have much importance.

B. Urban

------------------------------

From: mycroft@duality.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Charles Hannum)
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.bsd
Subject: Re: File System for Both
Date: 11 Mar 1994 20:21:19 GMT


In article <1994Mar10.122729.14271@wubios.wustl.edu>
david@wubios.wustl.edu (David J Camp) writes:

   Is there a filesystem that works under both Linux and BSD?

Sure.  The MS-DOS FAT file system.

--
- Charles Hannum
  NetBSD group
  Working ports: i386, hp300, amiga, sparc, mac68k, pc532.
  In progress: pmax, sun3.

------------------------------

From: jfn@pc-visao-4.inesc (Jorge Nunes)
Subject: Re: Mosaic 2.2 problems
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 11:04:48 GMT



> If you've got the source and motif it's a one line fix
>
>Alan


Please, to tell us!


--

===========================================================
Jorge Filipe Franco Nunes
E-mail: jfn@vision.inesc.pt


------------------------------

From: jbrehm@acpub.duke.edu (John Brehm)
Subject: MPEG-II audio player for Linux?
Date: 11 Mar 1994 14:32:01 GMT

Has anyone ported an MPEG-II audio player for Linux, a la
maplay?

-- 
jbrehm@acpub.duke.edu

------------------------------

From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert)
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.bsd
Subject: Re: Notebook (Re: BSD vs. Linux)
Date: 11 Mar 1994 06:25:45 GMT

In article <2lm8ok$ssr@news.nynexst.com> hjl@nynexst.com (H.J. Lu) writes:
>Arne H. Juul (arnej@pvv.unit.no) wrote:
>
>: Running Linux for its networking code seems somewhat odd to me.
>
>Have you tried to put your notebook on a network with a PCMCIA ethernet
>card?

Works great; all you need is a PCMCIA enabler shim, which is very few lines
of code to write, especially if you have doc's for PCMCIA.  Most of the
network cards are NE2000 compatible.  Should take you half an hour.

It also works with anything else PCMCIA if you code things right (or one
network card exactly if you do it wrong), including FAX modems and SCSI
interfaces for things like tape drives.  8-).


                                        Terry Lambert
                                        terry@cs.weber.edu
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.graphics.opengl
From: p91152@PROBLEM_WITH_INEWS_GATEWAY_FILE (Michael De La Rue)
Subject: Re: OpenGL on Linux?
Reply-To: miked@ed.ac.uk
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 1994 10:21:50 GMT

Brian Hook (bwh@beach.cis.ufl.edu) wrote:
> Bzzzt.  SGI has stated publically (and privately) that litigation was
> definitely an option and in their best interests if someone uses their API
> to create a new product.  Go figure.  Now an API is copyrightable.  *sigh*

Not here they ain't.  You could get people in the sane legal districts
of the world to do the development and then never bring it into the USA.
No sir...  Actually I think this would be a great example of how we here
can accelerate software development out here at the expense of the USA
using our superior (smileys here for USA people... I'm generalising
okay.  As in predjudiced... Yes I know we sent proven innocents to jail
for the Guildford pub bombing.. but it'll never happen again.. honest)
legal system..


nice adj. 1. pleasent, satisfactory (of a person) kind, good-natured. 
2.(iron) bad difficult awkward.  3. needing precision and care; subtle....
                The Oxford Reference Dictionary.

------------------------------

From: tgm@netcom.com (Thomas G. McWilliams)
Subject: Re: "Reverse-engineering"
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 1994 10:16:37 GMT

John F. Haugh II (jfh@rpp386) wrote:
: With the "free" software to support, the company would have no
: business.  Without the charity of programmers, Cygnus employees
: would be out on the street.

But the error in this line of reasoning is assuming that authors of
GPL software are motivated by charity. I say GPL authors are 
motivated by economic self-interest. Unfortunately most people
have a limited concept economy, usually limited to some visible
exchange involving money. But real life involves many economies
where the choices and gains (or loss) are more subtle. The
restricted sense of economics usually applied to discussions of
the GPL are analogous to attempting to do mathematics without
the irrational numbers or the concept of zero. You can only take
the discussion so far. Economics and individual choice often
have no direct correlation with any monetary fee at all.

Thomas
tgm@netcom.com

------------------------------

From: garrett@netcom.com (Garrett D'Amore)
Subject: Re: Linux Journal
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 1994 22:37:24 GMT

Well, in San Diego, CA, I'm still waiting for mine.  I subscribed in
early Feb. or late Jan.

=================================================================
Garrett D'Amore                 |     garrett@netcom.com
Network Programmer/Analyst      |     Available for hire !!
SDSU Computer Science Major     |     Go Aztecs!
=================================================================

Ask me about Linux, the free 32-bit Unix-like OS for PCs!

Also, ask for my resume if you are an employer in San Diego 
seeking a qualified network programmer or administrator.

------------------------------

From: martin@bsm.bioc.ucl.ac.uk (Andrew Martin)
Subject: Re: Amiga as X Terminal
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 1994 10:31:12 GMT

In article <1994Mar9.122456.2764@tudedv.et.tudelft.nl>, rmabevaart@et.tudelft.nl (RAISTLIN) writes:
|> 
|> Hi, I have a 486DX50 running Linux and X.
|> 
|> I have an Amiga 2000 w/5 Megs attached as a text console but I would
|> like to know if anybody has ever tried to make it work as an X terminal.
|> The Amiga has a stock 68000 (7 MHz) thus running BSD is out of the
|> question ....
|> 
|> Thanx in advance...
|> 
|> rutger@morra.et.tudelft.nl
|>  

I haven't done it myself, but there's an Amiga X-Windows package from
GfxBase in the states written by Dale Luck. Unfortunately, it's commercial
around $300 as I remember, but that was a couple of years ago so the price
may well have come down.

Andrew

-- 
****************************************************************************
Dr. Andrew C.R. Martin,         University College London & SciTech Software
INTERNET: martin@bsm.bioc.ucl.ac.uk     -OR-     amartin@scitec.adsp.sub.org
JANET:    martin@uk.ac.ucl.bioc.bsm
UUCP:     {uunet|rutgers}!cbmehq!cbmuk!scitec!amartin
****************************************************************************

------------------------------


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