Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #804
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Sun, 13 Mar 94 03:14:37 EST

Linux-Misc Digest #804, Volume #1                Sun, 13 Mar 94 03:14:37 EST

Contents:
  Re: [Q] Linux and Windows 3.1 resource-sharing. (Frohwalt Egerer)
  Re: DOOM for X (Amancio Hasty Jr)
  Re: SoftPC/Linux? (John F. Haugh II)
  Re: Does zless exist? (John F. Haugh II)
  Re: File System for Both (Michael Gerhards)
  Re: pronunciation of linux (Christian Pablo Tagtachian)
  Re: compiler quality (was "Reverse-engineering") (Ben Taylor)
  Re: SoftPC/Linux? (Byron A Jeff)
  Re: DOOM for X (Amancio Hasty Jr)
  Re: SoftPC/Linux? (Chris D. Johnston)
  Re: compiler quality (was "Reverse-engineering") (Jim McGrath)
  Micro FAQ list for Trans-Ameritech CDROM (Roman Yanovsky  roman@btr.com)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: froh@devnull.adsp.sub.org (Frohwalt Egerer)
Subject: Re: [Q] Linux and Windows 3.1 resource-sharing.
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 1994 05:22:24 GMT

Gonzalo Diethelm (gonzo@malloco.ing.puc.cl) wrote:

: Hello all,

: After some time of watching people talk wonders about Linux, I think
: I'm getting ready to give it a try. But, I would like not to disrupt
: too much my working enviroment. Currently, I have two PCs (386DX and
: 486SX), each with a NE2000 network card, a 200 MB IDE disk and
: SuperVGA color monitors, running Windows 3.1 and connected via a
: Lantastic peer-to-peer network. I have become used to working 
: in Windows for all my non-development chores, such as writing
: documents, balancing my checkbook and sending a FAX, but every
: time I have to write code (usually using Borland C++), I start
: wishing I had a decent, Unix-based development platform. So, what
: I would like to try is installing Linux on the 486 and leaving the
: 386 as is. My questions are:

: 1. Will I be able to share any kind of resources through the
:    NE2000 cards? Peer-to-peer networking would be great, but I guess
:    I would settle for painless file transfering.

You will have to install some TCP/IP package for windows, that will
enable you sharing the drives. As far as I know there is a free
TCP/IP implementation for Windows called Trumpet, but I just heard
some talk about it ...

: 2. Will I be able to boot the Linux computer with DOS?
That is no problem. You just need to set up some DOS partition on
the hard drive. Nevertheless I wouldn't go below 200MB disk storage
for a development Linux system, so you may want to add another hard
drive some day. (On the other hand 200M really is enough to try 
Linux ... it's no problem to expand it later, _if_ you really need
it ...)

: 3. Is there any way I can develop C++ software on Linux to be run
:    on WIndows 3.1 (8^)?
Yes and no. First of all you could write portable software. This
will require each program having Linux and Windows specific parts,
but it will increase the number of systems the software will run
on :-) Additionally writing portable software is some great
programming practice, especially in these days when so many new
platforms are going to be sold to 'common' users. (Unix, WinNT, 
NextStep, OS/2, Mac, ...)

I also heard rumors about a kit to make windows source code compile
under Linux, but I do not know if this package is usable at all.
At least there isn't very much talk about it.


: 4. Is there any way I can run Windows 3.1 software on Linux? WABI?
:    Black magic? Voodoo?

Yes, all the important Windows applications run. All important
Windows applications are:  SOLITAIRE

Seriously, there is a similiar project like WABI, it is called
WINE. WINE is far from really usable yet, only the most basic
Windows applications run. (Don't get it wrong - The WINE 
programmers did *A LOT* of great work yet, just the concept of
something like WINE is so big ...)

There is a mailing list for people who are concerned with wine,
but currently I do not have the address where you can subscribe.

You also might try black magic or voodoo, since this is nearly
always needed to make Windows 3.1 software run cleanly, even
under Windows 3.1, it also might work with Linux :-) :-)



: 5. Any other relevant suggestions or comments you might think
:    interesting, shove'em in.

If you want install Linux: 

RTFM! RTFM! RTFM! RTFM! RTFM! ... (repeated to eternity)

There is much good documentation out there in the Linux world.
You should have a look at all the FAQs that are posted 
(comp.os.linux.announce) and to those that are lying around at 
the usual ftp sites. Reading the FAQs _before_ installing Linux
probably saves you a lot of trouble. (If everybody would read 
them it would also save the net a lot of bandwith ...)

If you got a problem, you're probably not the first one with 
this problem, and the answer is hidden somewhere in the
documentation.


LINUX IS COMPLEX. HANDLE WITH CARE.

That is: 

 - THINK before you take a step. Especially in the installation
   phase when you fiddle around with fdisk and mkfs. (Mkfs is similar
   to format in DOS ...)

   Not thinking caused me to erase my root partition once and my
   home partition another time ... out of pure coincidence I had
   a backup in the latter case. (I tested the tape driver the day
   before ... :-)

 - Take notes about every step you take in installing Linux.
   Installing Linux for the first time will take you a long time 
   and involve a lot of steps which must be performed. (Hovever
   it still is a lot of fun) If you don't take notes you will 
   probably forget the one or other minor detail which might 
   become very important weeks later.

   And maybe later on some friends consider you the Linux Guru who
   they ask, because they want to install Linux ... 
  
 
 - Make backups of the files you change manually. 
   (Make backups of files that look important.)

   This can be vital if you screw up at some point and have to
   start over, or if you just want to try another setup.



Both points (RTFM! and THINK) are especially important when you
select which Linux distribution you install. The first time I
installed Linux I got the wrong distribution - one with hat lots
of bugs which I had to iron out myself. I would have saved a lot
of work if I would have got the right one.

You should read the linux newsgroups for a while, and read about
problems people have installing some distributions. Asking which
distribution is best could start just another flame war, asking
which distribution is too broken for a normal user will most
definitely do. 

I'm currently quite happy with Slackware 1.1.2 since I didn't
have too much trouble installing it, and for the time I'm 
using it, it didn't reveal any great bugs. However, it is quite 
large, that means it eats up a lot of diskspace and there are 
lots of stuff which you won't need. 




So have much fun (and a reasonable amount of luck) in installing Linux

Froh


-- 
Frohwalt Egerer   Drausnickstr. 36   91052 Erlangen   Germany      ///   Use
froh@devnull.franken.de     (preferred)                           ///  Linux
ftegerer@cip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de                       \\\///  
                                                               \XX/  ECG 210
Nicht der Henning, nicht der Henning, nicht der Henning ...
                  -- Bernd Raschke beim Karlsruhe Meeting 94


------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.386bsd.apps
From: hasty@netcom.com (Amancio Hasty Jr)
Subject: Re: DOOM for X
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 1994 22:14:04 GMT

In article <2lrtvn$icf@daisy.cc.utexas.edu> ddt@daisy.cc.utexas.edu (David Taylor) writes:
>
>The bad news: I hope y'all don't mind if I restrict the ports to
>keyboard input.  I'm kinda wondering about the rudeness of yanking the
>mouse into the window for mouse control.  Would rather not muck with
>it.  Real men use keyboards only anyway.. (I'm an incurable vi loser).
>The sound may also be sorta medium OK.  My Linux sound code doesn't
>sound super hot because Linux as w/ other UNIXes isn't too pleased with
>real-time sound scheduling, mixing, modelling, etc.  The effect is a
>few sound effects like item-up which sound as though there's a

If you have any problems with the sound driver e-mail me or
mail to Hannu the author. I think that the OS teams will probably
give you a hand in whatever is it that you need. We can schedule
events to be triggered by the system clock.

Currently, driving my gus with concurrent bi-directional dma operations
to my GUS:) For apps like NetAudio it means that we can carry out
conversations over the net or have a live FreeBSD Dee-Jay overlaying
his announcement over the music. We Will be able to have a Global
BroadCast...

        Peace,
        Amancio



-- 
FREE unix, gcc, tcp/ip, X, open-look, interviews, tcl/tk, MIME, midi, sound
at  freebsd.cdrom.com:/pub/FreeBSD
Amancio Hasty,  Consultant |
Home: (415) 495-3046       |  
e-mail hasty@netcom.com    |  ftp-site depository of all my work:    
ahasty@cisco.com           |  sunvis.rtpnc.epa.gov:/pub/386bsd/X

------------------------------

From: jfh@rpp386 (John F. Haugh II)
Subject: Re: SoftPC/Linux?
Reply-To: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 1994 20:03:41 GMT

In article <PDCAWLEY.94Mar11105231@iest.demon.co.uk> pdcawley@iest.demon.co.uk (Piers Cawley) writes:
>In article <1994Mar11.014807.20715@rpp386> jfh@rpp386 (John F. Haugh II) writes:
>> It's actually called "DOS Merge" and most likely hasn't been ported
>> anywhere near Linux.  LCC is a commercial venture and they don't make
>> no money giving software away ...
>
>Yes, so? They can compile it and sell it to interested parties,
>where's the problem?

Have you ever tried selling commercial software in the Linux environment?
Even a hint of the word "commercial" or "proprietary" sets Linux users on
a wild rampage.
-- 
John F. Haugh II  [ NRA-ILA ] [ Kill Barney ] !'s: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh
Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151 [GOP][DoF #17][PADI][ENTJ]   @'s: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org
 There are three documents that run my life: The King James Bible, the United
 States Constitution, and the UNIX System V Release 4 Programmer's Reference.

------------------------------

From: jfh@rpp386 (John F. Haugh II)
Subject: Re: Does zless exist?
Reply-To: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 1994 20:07:27 GMT

In article   writes:
>zmore _is_ a shell script that does just zcat $* | more. Change more to
>less and it will work.

You should be able to just say "export PAGER=less" and have it automatically
work.
-- 
John F. Haugh II  [ NRA-ILA ] [ Kill Barney ] !'s: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh
Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151 [GOP][DoF #17][PADI][ENTJ]   @'s: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org
 There are three documents that run my life: The King James Bible, the United
 States Constitution, and the UNIX System V Release 4 Programmer's Reference.

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.unix.bsd
From: michael@jester.GUN.de (Michael Gerhards)
Subject: Re: File System for Both
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 1994 17:44:25 GMT

In article <2lom94$7tc@news.nynexst.com> , H.J. Lu wrote:
> I think both Linux and xxxxBSD can mount the floppy DOS filesystem. But
> I am not sure if the xxxxBSD can mount a DOS partition on a hard drive.

FreeBSD can.

Michael
-- 
michael@jester.GUN.de *   Michael Gerhards   * Voice:  +49 2131 82238 
-=> FreeBSD 1.0.2 <=- *  Preussenstrasse 59  * Modem:  +49 2131 80923 
                      * Germany  41464 Neuss * Login guest, no passwd

------------------------------

From: floyd@myhost.subdomain.domain (Christian Pablo Tagtachian)
Subject: Re: pronunciation of linux
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 1994 22:33:00 GMT

Yumin Yang (ymy@johann.engin.umich.edu) wrote:

: Hi, folks,
: How should I pronunce the letter "i" in "linux", like the one in "line" or
: the one in "linear"?  Thanks.

: -ymy
: -- 
: -Yumin Yang   ymy@engin.umich.edu

I have never seen 12 follows to the same post... and I cannot believe the
subject is the way 'linux' should be pronounced. Funny isn't it?
Christian

 

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss
From: s9ubxt@almserv.uucp (Ben Taylor)
Subject: Re: compiler quality (was "Reverse-engineering")
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 1994 06:14:04 GMT

jfh@rpp386 (John F. Haugh II) writes:

>work a problem.  I'd like to see programmers working in their free time
>without pay fly to Hong Kong from Texas to fix an X.25 problem ...

As long as they put a copyright that says "if you make money off it,
pay me....."   Ha.  Get the clue jfh and use realistic examples. 
People flying to Hong Kong from Texas to fix an X.25 for no pay is
not an clueful example.

>-- 
>John F. Haugh II  [ NRA-ILA ] [ Kill Barney ] !'s: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh
>Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151 [GOP][DoF #17][PADI][ENTJ]   @'s: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org
> There are three documents that run my life: The King James Bible, the United
> States Constitution, and the UNIX System V Release 4 Programmer's Reference.

------------------------------

From: byron@cc.gatech.edu (Byron A Jeff)
Subject: Re: SoftPC/Linux?
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 1994 22:45:20 GMT

In article <1994Mar12.200341.9221@rpp386>,
John F. Haugh II <jfh@rpp386.cactus.org> wrote:
>In article <PDCAWLEY.94Mar11105231@iest.demon.co.uk> pdcawley@iest.demon.co.uk (Piers Cawley) writes:
>>In article <1994Mar11.014807.20715@rpp386> jfh@rpp386 (John F. Haugh II) writes:
>>> It's actually called "DOS Merge" and most likely hasn't been ported
>>> anywhere near Linux.  LCC is a commercial venture and they don't make
>>> no money giving software away ...
>>
>>Yes, so? They can compile it and sell it to interested parties,
>>where's the problem?
>
>Have you ever tried selling commercial software in the Linux environment?
>Even a hint of the word "commercial" or "proprietary" sets Linux users on
>a wild rampage.

John, noboby cried bloody murder when Metrolink started selling Motif for
Linux.

I think that if someone offers a product that fills a need and there is
no substitute, people will buy it. However for many many things there are
free versions. So the comment becomes "Why buy it when I can get it for
free!" which is a prevalent Linux attitude. 

I'll use the DOS emulator for example. I have a couple of applications
(2 PIC assemblers, and a Intel PLD compiler suite) that crashes DOSEMU.
I figure that I'd spend about $30 to $35 for a linux based DOS emulator
that'll run these applications. Anything more than that makes it worth
my while to just shut down Linux and boot DOS (where the apps work just 
fine). My Linux attitude also brings to the table the possibility of
trying to find the error causing the crash in DOSEMU and fixing it. 

But Linux usually gives me options. That's the best part. We pay in time
waiting, time coding, time debugging, and non error free code sometimes.
But I wouldn't have it any other way.

BAJ
---
Another random extraction from the mental bit stream of...
Byron A. Jeff - PhD student operating in parallel!
Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332   Internet: byron@cc.gatech.edu

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.386bsd.apps
From: hasty@netcom.com (Amancio Hasty Jr)
Subject: Re: DOOM for X
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 1994 22:41:53 GMT

In article <SJA.94Mar12174713@gamma.hut.fi> sja@snakemail.hut.fi (Sakari Jalovaara) writes:
>> I agree that X the wrong platform for doing high-speed and
>> time-critical graphics applications like video-style games.  There are
>

Hmmm...

At Daisy Corp, when it was around, we implemented a shared library
with all the OS calls for the Daisy's Operating system. The end-result
was that every Daisy app map the OS to their user space . The approach
also allowed for Daisy Workstations to execute processes in VMS so
it qualified as a client-server model and local clients on VMS 
were not penalized for the client-server overhead.

        Amancio



-- 
FREE unix, gcc, tcp/ip, X, open-look, interviews, tcl/tk, MIME, midi, sound
at  freebsd.cdrom.com:/pub/FreeBSD
Amancio Hasty,  Consultant |
Home: (415) 495-3046       |  
e-mail hasty@netcom.com    |  ftp-site depository of all my work:    
ahasty@cisco.com           |  sunvis.rtpnc.epa.gov:/pub/386bsd/X

------------------------------

From: chris@surfcty.surfcty.com (Chris D. Johnston)
Subject: Re: SoftPC/Linux?
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 1994 04:49:40 GMT

Jeff Miller (jmiller@terra.colostate.edu) wrote:
: I was just thinking...

: Seeing how SoftPC runs reasonably well on Suns and Macintoshes, how hard
: would it be for Insignia to make a PC emulator for the PC over Linux? I
: think a product like this would bring Linux the compatibility it needs,
: and the following it deserves.

: I could then format my drive and make one big Linux partition :)

You will probably never, ever see Insignia make a PC emulator for
a GNU / FSF copylefted operating system.  There is no profit in it
for them.  Unless, of course, they were to charge a fee.  And then
I suspect a lot of people in the Linux communtity will do...

Just my thoughts. :-)

Chris
chris@surfcty.com
: --
:  ___________________________________________________________________________
: |                                                                           |
: | jmiller@terra.colostate.edu (Jeff Miller)  |  TERRA Systems Administrator |
: |___________________________________________________________________________|
-- 
===============================================================
Chris D. Johnston  Surf City Software, Orange, CA  714/289-8543
chris@surfcty.com                             fax: 714/289-1002 


------------------------------

Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss
From: jim@stove.actrix.gen.nz (Jim McGrath)
Subject: Re: compiler quality (was "Reverse-engineering")
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 1994 17:31:26 GMT

John F. Haugh II (jfh@rpp386) wrote:
: Why should I waste my time searching for the latest patch (or hanging
: out on the net, or hiring some support company, or ...) when I can

Christ! This is too much. "waste my time ... hanging out on the net"
In the last five minutes I've read about 10 posts from you arguing
(with zeal) with people that obviously are not going to come around
and you claim not to have time to waste... 

This kind of "I know more about the future of the software industry" crap
is IMHO more irritating than the barrage of FAQs that get asked around here.

: pick up the phone, dial customer suport and get a new compiler in less
: than a day?

If it is a known problem. If you call IBM they'll always give you the
7 or 8 latest PTFs to fix some other totally unrelated problem, but it'll 
make you feel better, wont it?

:  There are three documents that run my life: The King James Bible, the United
:  States Constitution, and the UNIX System V Release 4 Programmer's Reference.

sigh. I'm an agnostic New Zealander who uses BSD and yet my life is still
affected by the above three. Oh nobody knows how I suffer... ;->

Jim 

------------------------------

From: roman@btr (Roman Yanovsky  roman@btr.com)
Subject: Micro FAQ list for Trans-Ameritech CDROM
Date: 12 Mar 1994 23:05:55 GMT


After answering many customer questions and reading posts on the c.o.l.h. we
at Trans-Ameritech realized that there is a need for a Trans-Ameritech CD-ROM 
FAQ list. While this is very far from the goal, I'll try to address the few
questions that are asked most often.

Q. I have successfully installed the Slackware system from the CD-ROM. 
   Why am I not able to mount the CD-ROM after I reboot?

A. The Slackware install script makes a boot floppy or sets up LILO with the
   standard Linux kernel 99 p14 that does not support non-SCSI CD-ROMs. Most
   user will want to recompile a kernel with support for just the hardware that
   they have. This helps to avoid hardware conflicts, false recognition of
   hardware that isn't there and makes the kernel smaller and faster to start.
   Recompiling the kernel is a very simple thing to do: just cd to the
   /usr/src/linux subdirectory and run "make" 3 times.
   make config
   make depend
   make 
   This will first ask a bunch of questions about what devices you want to
   support and then will make a zImage file in the same directory.
   If you need to configure some non-standard hardware, for example you want
   the Mitsumi CD-ROM to use some address and IRQ different from 0x300 and 11,
   you will need to edit the appropriate configuration file. In the example
   above it is /usr/include/linux/mcd.h

Q. So how do I make a boot floppy?

A. Easy. First transfer the kernel to a blank formatted floppy, 1.2 or 1.44 Meg
   cat zImage > /dev/fd0
   is one method that works. You can also use "dd" or "cp". Leave the floppy
   in the drive "A:" and customize the kernel.
   Make sure that the kernel points to your root device. For example if your
   root is on /dev/hda2, do this:
   rdev /dev/fd0 /dev/hda2
   rdev -v /dev/fd0 -3  <<<<<< to make it ask for video mode, -1 for normal VGA
   rdev -R /dev/fd0 1   <<<<<< to avoid fsck on every boot
   rdev -r /dev/fd0 0   <<<<<< no need for ramdisk
 
   That's it! Reboot with this floppy and enjoy.

Q. Recompile the kernel? Me? Too much work. Can I use yours?

A. Sure. The kernel that you used for installing the system apparently works
   for you. There are 4 kernels in the /boot directory on the CD-ROM that can
   be used for this. For Mitsumi or Panasonic/Matsushita/SoundBlaster CD-ROMs
   the zImage.uni will probably work best. For Sony CDU31a zImage.p13 may work
   better. zImage.535 is for CDU535. If you have Panasonic/Matsushita but the
   zImage.uni doesn't even boot (conflict with a network card at 0x300), then
   use zImage.sb.
   The rest is just as described above: one cat and 4 "rdev" commands.

Q. Why is your release still at kernel patch level xx, while the yy is out
   already?

A. Every time a new kernel/distribution is released bugs are found in the next
   few days and fixed in the following days, generating sometimes new bugs.
   It's easy to patch the ftp release. Even a floppy release. Once the CD-ROM
   is mastered, it's cast in plastic at significant cost. That's why we wait
   for a new release to cool down a bit while testing it on different hardware.
   Also it takes at the very least 2 weeks to print the CD-ROMs. For this 
   reason CD-ROM releases will always lag behind net releases a little. However
   in most cases it is not such a terrible problem. For example if you 
   absolutely have to have the latest kernel, get the source by ftp and build
   it! All the source tree fits on one floppy. Also if you want badly some new
   feature in Slackware release, get just this one new little thing by ftp - 
   the rest is probably not much different from your CD distribution.

Q. I have installed the system and it kind of works. However I can not start X.
   What's the deal?

A. Sorry, but installing X requires a little work on your part. The X setup
   depends heavily on your hardware. When thing work, even kind of work, people
   have no incentive to read the documentation. For this reason we decided not
   to provide a "least common denominator" setup for 640x480 screen. While
   this would save some users 10 minutes of reading, it will not make everyone
   happy and might actually give Xfree86 a bad name. I can clearly see angry
   messages: "DOS is better! In gives me 1280x1024 in 16 zillion colors!"
   On the other hand an incorrect setup could even damage some user's card or
   monitor.

Q. So how do I configure the @#$%^ Xfree86?

A. There is a nice chapter about configuring Xfree86 in the X "HOW-TO" document
   that can be found among other places on the Trans-Ameritech CD-ROM in the
   /read/xfree file. I don't need to repeat it here, but basically there are
   several steps:
   1. make a link from /usr/bin/X11/X to the right Xserver for your setup. For
   most people it will be XF86_SVGA.
   2. create an Xconfig file. Examples are provided. Put the right pointers to
   your mouse, Xserver etc. into this file.
   3. Most important step - find the right numbers in the database for your
   combination of video card and monitor, or calculate your own. The 
   documentation is very extensive on the subject.


-Alex and Roman.




------------------------------


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