Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #846
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Mon, 21 Mar 94 09:13:08 EST

Linux-Misc Digest #846, Volume #1                Mon, 21 Mar 94 09:13:08 EST

Contents:
  *** PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE POSTING *** (misc-2.07) (Ian Jackson)
  Re: *** DON'T READ THIS BEFORE POSTING *** (Stephen Harris)
  Re: pronunciation of linux (Stephen Harris)
  Re: NEW PRODUCT : 3 Linux (Stephen Harris)
  Re: Opinions wanted about SCO-unix (vs AIX/Linux). (Jon Tombs)
  Re: Mosaic 2.2 with FORMS? (Mitchum DSouza)
  Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring (Ian Jackson)
  Re: Which distribution installs from CDROM or Hard-disk. (Zenon Fortuna)
  Re: which utility (Rene COUGNENC)
  src for termtelnet? (Philip Brown)
  Re: Impressions: FreeBSD vs Linux (Warner Losh)
  Re: Wine status March 11, 1994 (Warner Losh)
  Re: DOOM for X (Paul Yee)
  Re: NEW PRODUCT : 3 Linux (Paul Tomblin)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: ijackson@nyx.cs.du.edu (Ian Jackson)
Subject: *** PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE POSTING *** (misc-2.07)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 11:03:01 GMT

Please do not post questions to comp.os.linux.misc - read on for details of
which groups you should read and post to.

Please do not crosspost anything between different groups of the comp.os.linux
hierarchy.  See Matt Welsh's introduction to the hierarchy, posted weekly.

If you have a question about Linux you should get and read the Linux Frequently
Asked Questions with Answers list from sunsite.unc.edu, in /pub/Linux/docs, or
from another Linux FTP site.  It is also posted periodically to c.o.l.announce.

In particular, read the question `You still haven't answered my question!'
The FAQ will refer you to the Linux HOWTOs (more detailed descriptions of
particular topics) found in the HOWTO directory in the same place.

Then you should consider posting to comp.os.linux.help - not
comp.os.linux.misc.

Note that X Windows related questions should go to comp.windows.x.i386unix, and
that non-Linux-specific Unix questions should go to comp.unix.questions.
Please read the FAQs for these groups before posting - look on rtfm.mit.edu in
/pub/usenet/news.answers/Intel-Unix-X-faq and .../unix-faq.

Only if you have a posting that is not more appropriate for one of the other
Linux groups - ie it is not a question, not about the future development of
Linux, not an announcement or bug report and not about system administration -
should you post to comp.os.linux.misc.


Comments on this posting are welcomed - please email me !
--
Ian Jackson  <ijackson@nyx.cs.du.edu>  (urgent email: iwj10@phx.cam.ac.uk)
2 Lexington Close, Cambridge, CB4 3LS, England;  phone: +44 223 64238

------------------------------

From: sweh.womble@spuddy.UUCP (Stephen Harris)
Subject: Re: *** DON'T READ THIS BEFORE POSTING ***
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 94 12:12:53 GMT

In article <2md0e7$83j@bovina.cs.utexas.edu> mcguire@cs.utexas.edu writes:

>I hate to jump into this argument, but I would like to point out that
>someone reading, say, colm for the first time faces quite a few
>messages.  (I had 1700 this morning, and I'd only been out of touch
>for a week or so.)  Since the "READ THIS BEFORE..." message gets
>posted daily and trn wants to arrange posts by date, it will be one of 
>the last 50 or so.  Heck, in some groups I never catch up enough to see
>daily postings.
>
>Anyway, I just thought I'd point out that it is possible to read
>several weeks worth of postings without ever seeing the daily faq.

Is this serious?  Really?

Look, I and others read col.* and try answering questions as a *free* service
to people in trouble.  BUT the onus is on the questioner to make sure the
question is well defined, easy to catorgorize, and NOT answered elsewhere.
Otherwise those who normally answer are just going to ignore the question, and
others (I don't condone them) flame the questioner.

Now, if people can't use their news reader to scan the group before posting,
then (1) they are not following proper netiquette, (2) they are going to
lose out when no-one answers or they get flamed.

I'm not going to waste my time answering a question I answered three days
ago, or that is in the FAQ, or the readme or the HOWTO or is not Linux
specific or....

People, do yourself a favour: drop this topic!
Newcomers, read the "newuser" groups, read the dailing postings, ask
relevant and good questions!

Enough already....
--
                            Stephen Harris
       sweh.womble@spuddy.uucp     ...!uknet!axion!spuddy!sweh.womble

*  Meow! Call Spuddy the Cat for Usenet access in the UK.  Call 0203 364436 *

------------------------------

From: sweh.womble@spuddy.UUCP (Stephen Harris)
Subject: Re: pronunciation of linux
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 94 15:21:27 GMT

< Warning!  Blatently humorous article following.  I've been flamed before for
  people not reading my articles correctly, so now I'm making clear: THIS IS
  A JOKE! >

In article <2mf8gq$d7p@kruuna.Helsinki.FI> wirzeniu@kruuna.Helsinki.FI writes:
>Charlie Brown and his friends are wrong!

I dunno, bleeding foreigners.  Seems like they can tell us how to speak our
language now!  Linus is pronounced Lie-nus.  Anyone who says differently
(even if their name is Linus Torvalds) is wrong.  Hey, English is meant to be
THE European language now, so surely we have to agree on pronounciation as
well :-)


PS: downloaded the english.au file.  The way the "r" in Torrrrrvalds is
rolled was unexpected.  Had to play if 5 times before I understood it :-)

--
                            Stephen Harris
       sweh.womble@spuddy.uucp     ...!uknet!axion!spuddy!sweh.womble

*  Meow! Call Spuddy the Cat for Usenet access in the UK.  Call 0203 364436 *

------------------------------

From: sweh.womble@spuddy.UUCP (Stephen Harris)
Subject: Re: NEW PRODUCT : 3 Linux
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 94 15:29:52 GMT

In article <94077.2048593JJN3@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> 3JJN3@QUCDN.QueensU.CA writes:
>1). Not every one is a perl expert.

True.  And having started programming in perl, this is understandable.
A "write only" language this surely is...
Powerful it may be, but maintaining other peoples scripts.....eek!

>3). We should pass the 1500 mark this weekend, every one will
>get a account number on Monday. And the price is still $29.95
>We are geting few temps on monday to get the dataentry done.

Further more, because of propogation delays, such a system is surely
unfair.  Advertising a "first come first served" system on Usenet is a
pretty much waste of time.  A lot of Linux users are people who can't
afford super-fast feeds, and may be stuck at the end of a UUCP link that
has a propogation delay of a couple of days.

Jay extending the offer until Monday is excellent advertising.  And
if he gets if done right will bolster Janas image enormously!

>PS : You have not even paid any thing yet so why are you worried :^).

Err, actually my mail to jana.com cost me GBP0.15 - not every one has free
email :-(

--
                            Stephen Harris
       sweh.womble@spuddy.uucp     ...!uknet!axion!spuddy!sweh.womble

*  Meow! Call Spuddy the Cat for Usenet access in the UK.  Call 0203 364436 *

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: biz.sco.general,comp.unix.advocacy
From: jon@robots.ox.ac.uk (Jon Tombs)
Subject: Re: Opinions wanted about SCO-unix (vs AIX/Linux).
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 10:57:44 GMT

In article <CMxyAH.KpK@wang.com> fitz@wang.com (Tom Fitzgerald) writes:
>
>My comment deserves more explanation.....  the original poster was
>comparing Linux to two commercial OSs (SCO and AIX), and vaguely implied
>that the choice would which one to use in a business environment.  Both SCO
>and AIX have commercial support available.  Regardless of the technical
>flaws in IBM products, their support is outstanding - in a class of its own
>compared to most of the computer industry.  Linux is unsupported; you can
>hope for help from the net, but you can't get anyone to commit to
>supporting it.  In a business environment support is critical.  If
>something dies and part of your operations grinds to a halt, that's a
>really really bad time to have bring in a logic analyzer to work out a
>subtle misinteraction between the disk and ethernet drivers.

Class of its own for sure, where on the net can you find IBM fixes for know
problems like you can for SunOS, AIX etc.

I really find it hard to believe you are talking about the same IBM as I
know, I've been waiting since november for some fixes from them, there
latest AIX release requirers a PROM change in all our IBM xterminals for
them to boot, IBM has mmade two attempts in the last four months to do
the prom upgrade, but has yet to arrive with the correct parts. I've use
linux much more than AIX, and I hit more bugs in AIX than linux.


>That's why I said that he shouldn't consider Linux unless he was already
>*very* familiar with it.  I know everything I need to know about Linux
>(not much, but enough), but the original poster should consider what he's
>getting into.


The only real help I've got with AIX has been in comp.unix.aix, it is the
only way I have found to get PTF fix numbers for the problems, the bottle
neck is getting readable fix tapes from IBM.

Jon. 

 I don't know about AIX for PCS but the 3.2.5 RS6000 release note
contain the warning:
  Aixwindows (X windows) may be unstable with less than 36MB paging (memory
+ swap) and it is not recommended that you install it with <36MB!
 

------------------------------

From: Mitchum DSouza <m.dsouza@mrc-apu.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Mosaic 2.2 with FORMS?
Date: 21 Mar 1994 06:40:33 -0500
Reply-To: m.dsouza@mrc-apu.cam.ac.uk

| How can I get FORMS to work with Mosaic 2.2 (from Sunsite)?
| When I try to type in a form blank, nothing shows up.
| 
| Also, when I start Mosaic 2.2, I get the following messages:
| 
| Mosaic: using incompatible library '/lib/libc.so.4'
|         Desire minor version >= 508 and found 404
| 
| 
| What version of what library files should I get to resolve this?
| I am running a heavily modified version of SLS 1.03.
|

You need to run libc.so.4.5.8 at the least to stop this messages. Also you
should upgrade your ld.so to version 1.4.3. If you do the latter you are able
to stop warning messages by setting the environment variable LD_NOWARN. See
the GCC-FAQ on sunsite.unc.edu /pub/linux/docs/faqs for more info.

Mitch

------------------------------

From: iwj@cam-orl.co.uk (Ian Jackson)
Crossposted-To: news.groups
Subject: Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring
Date: 21 Mar 1994 11:56:30 GMT

In article <1994Mar18.180935.17061@cs.cornell.edu>,
Ron "Asbestos" Dippold <rdippold@qualcomm.com> wrote:
>                         STRAW POLL RESULTS
>                     Linux groups automonitoring
> Yes   No : Group
>---- ---- : -------------------------------------------
> 284  189 : comp.os.linux.misc
> 315  165 : comp.os.linux.help
> 333  146 : comp.os.linux.admin
> 317  155 : comp.os.linux.development


I think that this gives me a fairly clear mandate to go ahead; I'm not
going to apply the overmajority rules that apply to group creation.

As I said during the discussion period, I've been convinced that
Subject line tags are more technically feasible than Keywords at the
moment (shame on you, newsreader authors).

I'll therefore arrange for the monitoring program to expect Subject
lines of the form
  Subject: [keyword] rest of subject
(this is used in several other groups).

I'd like your input on the list of Keywords the daemon would *not*
send mail about.  I'll shortly be posting in news.groups a list of
possible keywords to stimulate discussion; any suggestions here or by
email would be welcome.

Note that discussion of this probably belongs in news.groups;
comp.os.linux.misc is crowded enough already.

--
Ian Jackson  iwj@cam-orl.co.uk ..!uknet!cam-orl!iwj  These opinions are my own.
2 Lexington Close, Cambridge CB4 3LS.                        + 44 223 575512
Cambridge University Computer Laboratory, New Musems Site.   + 44 223 334676
Email also via: ijackson@nyx.cs.du.edu   PGP2 public key available on request

------------------------------

From: zenon@resonex.com (Zenon Fortuna)
Subject: Re: Which distribution installs from CDROM or Hard-disk.
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 01:26:30 GMT

In article <2m3kvl$hgl@gap.cco.caltech.edu> iotov@off.ugcs.caltech.edu (Mihail Stilianov Iotov) writes:
>I won't to install Linux. As I understand Slackware is recommended but you have
>to make floppies if you ftp it. Is there a CD-ROM that lets you install from there ?
>
>I am very new at this and any help will be appreciated.
>
>Thanks,
>Miahil Iotov
>

I installed from the CD-ROM, sent as "LINUX QUARTERLY WINTER 1994" by
Morse Telecommunications. It contains SLACKWARE 1.1.2.
The only problem I had was to hit the proper CD-ROM configuration, then it
was a tricky situation when I had to type
"packages/Slackware" and not "packages/slackware".
In general, the installation worked very efficiently.

        zenon@resonex.com

------------------------------

From: rene@renux.frmug.fr.net (Rene COUGNENC)
Subject: Re: which utility
Date: 20 Mar 1994 14:25:53 GMT
Reply-To: cougnenc@hsc.fr.net (Rene COUGNENC)

Ce brave Dan Swartzendruber ecrit:


> I'm kind of amazed.  With all of the random, semi-useful BSD
> programs out there, I was a tad surprised when I typed in
> 'which crond' and found out Linux doesn't have the which
> command.  I poked around in the BSD sources and got it working
> and installed in /usr/local/bin in a few minutes, but it seems
> to me that a program this useful really should be part of the
> standard release...  It wasn't in Slackware 1.1.2 anyhow...

Really ?

plux:~> which which
which: shell built-in command.

This is whith tcsh.
If you use 'bash', set it to:

alias which='type -path'

And you're done...
--
 linux linux linux linux -[ cougnenc@renux.frmug.fr.net ]- linux linux linux 

------------------------------

From: philb@cats.ucsc.edu (Philip Brown)
Subject: src for termtelnet?
Date: 21 Mar 1994 12:27:56 GMT



Yes, It's me again :-) I'd also like to find the source for termtelnet.
All I see are binaries for linux. I want to run it on my sparcstation.

And before the same gutless obnoxious guy who sent me anonymous mail
replies to me again.. I've TRIED archie, and all it puts out is binaries
of the thing.

-- 
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Philip Brown, CIS major, UC Santa Cruz
Author of "kdrill", and "xmandel"
Winging my way out of academia soon...
philb@cats.ucsc.edu philb@soda.berkeley.edu

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.386bsd.misc
From: imp@boulder.parcplace.com (Warner Losh)
Subject: Re: Impressions: FreeBSD vs Linux
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 01:12:16 GMT

In article <2mfjro$9s8@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>
lilo@slip-11-12.ots.utexas.edu (lilo) writes: 
>On Sat, 19 Mar 94 16:30:25 GMT, Douglas Pratt
(dspt@troi.cc.rochester.edu) wrote: 
>>    I'm sorry- but which newsgroup is this? I could have sworn I'd
>> unsubscribed from all the BSD groups the day I discovered ObjectBuilder for
>> Linux in my mailbox. Guess I better check again ........

Glad to hear it.

>I had thought
>everyone on both sides got that "let's compare apples to oranges" stuff out
>of their systems a long time ago.... ;)

I have found that FreeBSD-current (soon, hopefully, to be 1.1)
compares quite well to Linux.  Its networking is better for my
situation, but the shared libraries are a tiny bit slow when compared
to Linux' implementation.  It works for me.

Last time I checked, compiling OI and uib took almost exactly the same
amount of time on Linux that it did on my FreeBSD box.  Something like
33:06 for uib on one and 32:59 for uib on the other.

I really like the way that source is distributed for FreeBSD.  It is
well organized and trivial to build (make world in one place) and I
have everything, except a new kernel installed.  Or I can do parts of
it as I see fit.  Really slick.

I've tried both and like FreeBSD better personally at the moment.
However, I grew up on Suns and BSD VAXen, so I'm a little biased
toward that side of the house.  For most people, either will fill
their needs equally well.  Unless there is an issue of non-support/bug
in the support for some piece of hardware.

They are both well done.  Kudos to all involved.

Warner

P.S.  I have no reason to believe that NetBSD would be any different
than FreeBSD for the things that I use it for.  All my comments about
FreeBSD would likely apply to NetBSD, but I haven't actually run it.

We now return you to the apples and oranges discussions....
-- 
Warner Losh             imp@boulder.parcplace.COM       ParcPlace Boulder
"... but I can't promote you to "Prima Donna" unless you demonstrate a few
 more serious personality disorders"

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.windows.x.i386unix,comp.os.386bsd.apps
From: imp@boulder.parcplace.com (Warner Losh)
Subject: Re: Wine status March 11, 1994
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 01:19:32 GMT

In article <2mfun0$j4d@universe.digex.net> philp@universe.digex.net
(Phil Perucci) writes: 
>I understand the Win32 API (one of it's incarnations) will be sort of
>an industry standard, at least on Microsoft and Unix platforms. 

The Win32 API is not a standard on Unix.  OSF/Motif is the standard
API for C programmers on Unix.  I don't think that OSF will go quietly
into that good night, now that they are the de facto standard API.

The marketing hype that you read may happen.  But then again, it may
not.

Warner

-- 
Warner Losh             imp@boulder.parcplace.COM       ParcPlace Boulder
"... but I can't promote you to "Prima Donna" unless you demonstrate a few
 more serious personality disorders"

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.386bsd.apps
From: yee@nimios.eng.mcmaster.ca (Paul Yee)
Subject: Re: DOOM for X
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 01:47:32 GMT

In article <1994Mar19.222527.10625@desaster.sunflower.sub.org> root@desaster.sunflower.sub.org (System Administrator) writes:
>ddt@daisy.cc.utexas.edu (David Taylor) writes:
>
>>The good news: I've been contacted by SGI, DEC, and Sun on ports to
>>their OS's.  The SGI Indy arrived today.  Neat machine.  An AXP and
>>SS10 may be on their way.
>cewl :-)
>
>>The bad news: I hope y'all don't mind if I restrict the ports to
>>keyboard input.  I'm kinda wondering about the rudeness of yanking the
>>mouse into the window for mouse control. 
>Yeah, mouse would not be very good I guess, but there is a joystick-
>device-driver around, why not support that one?
>
>Cheers, Michael Will

No! No! Please don't! I am sure that I'm not the only one who prefers
mouse+keyboard to keyboard or joystick alone; just check out the
recent threads in alt.games.doom. And yes, I have tried both control
methods and there is simply no comparison. The analogue feel of the
mouse affords that extra degree of ergonomic control that a digital
input such as the keyboard cannot. This coming from an emacs diehard
:-)

Surely there is some solution possible to the technical problem of
mouse control under X?


Regards,
Paul Yee

------------------------------

From: ptomblin@gandalf.ca (Paul Tomblin)
Subject: Re: NEW PRODUCT : 3 Linux
Date: 21 Mar 1994 08:18:05 -0500

a_alonso@iastate.edu (Alberto S Alonso) writes:
>Well, after four days (or something like that) I finally got my response,
>I don't know how their numbers work, but I send the reply when only 185
>persons had read the article  and my number  is over 3000.

How do you know that only 185 people had read the article?  I think you have
a serious misconception about how the net works if you think there is any way
in the world of counting how many people have read an article.

-- 
Paul Tomblin, Head - Automation Design Group.
Gandalf Canada Limited
This is not an official statement of Gandalf, or of Vicki Robinson.
"Hello, this is Linus Torvalds, and I pronounce Linux as Linux"

------------------------------


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