Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #847
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Mon, 21 Mar 94 16:13:15 EST

Linux-Misc Digest #847, Volume #1                Mon, 21 Mar 94 16:13:15 EST

Contents:
  FEM C++ & DsTool working on Linux. (Tom Ward)
  Re: Opinions wanted about SCO-unix (vs AIX/Linux). (Raul Deluth Miller)
  Re: [Q] Forcing lilo to wait for the kernel specification (Christoph Rimek)
  Re: 4.4BSD-Lite (Was: BSD vs. Linux) (Rui Pedro Mendes Salgueiro)
  Re: BRACE YOURSELF, was Re: Opinions wanted about SCO-unix (vs AIX/Li (ROBERT C. LOKERSON)
  Q: why no bootup messages in 'messages' in 1.0? (Eyal Lebedinsky)
  Re: *** DON'T READ THIS BEFORE POSTING *** (Alan Cox)
  Re: IBM MCA and Novell Netware [ (Alan Cox)
  Filenames on Sunsite (Peter Berger)
  CD-ROM and Linux. Why and which? (Alberto S Alonso)
  Re: Opinions wanted about SCO-unix (vs AIX/Linux). (Bill Campbell)
  Re: [1.0] Linux, Comments (Ray Rocker)
  Re: [Request] Mosaic 2.2+term fixed (Robert W. Brewer)
  Re: Impressions: FreeBSD vs Linux (Ismo Peltonen)
  Re: NEW PRODUCT : 3 Linux CD's and a T-Shirt for $29. (bobp@missmarple.east.sun.com)
  Re: DOOM for X (Mark A. Davis)
  Re: DOOM for X (Mark A. Davis)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tom@zapata.demon.co.uk (Tom Ward)
Subject: FEM C++ & DsTool working on Linux.
Reply-To: Tom@zapata.demon.co.uk
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 13:22:12 +0000

FEM-C++
I've today compiled Michael Tiller's C++ Finite Elemment Library,
from what I read in the included documentation it seems
well thought out, not just as a finite element class, its
base classes seem to allow for a dynamic system derivation.
The adjustments are shown at the end.

DSTOOL
John Guckenheimer's Dstool also compiles, you'll nee the
XView port, I have XView3L5. This is an excellent analysis
tool for dynamic systems, its a simulation approach so non-
linearities are no problem. The code is C you need to write
C code to define your system, the interface is well clear
and quite object oriented so its no problem. Although its
a simulation you can analyse systems in real time (even
on my 386sx40). The authors are no mathematical slouches,
check out some of their publications, and so the system is
very powerfull, whilst still being EASY and pleasant to use.
The only thing lacking is a provision for stochastic processes
but perhaps it could be added, the system is very extensible.

C++ WRAPPER
I've a few simple classes to provide an interface to dstool.
If anyone's interested mail me (I don't often read the news),
likewise I'd appreciate some help with the classes.



COMPILING MICHAEL TILLERS C++ FEM________________
I'm using Linux 0.99.14 and GCC 2.4.5

A.
The make files all look for headers in /usr/include/CC
which on my system (from a December 93 Slackware) doesn't
exist. I needed a link:

ln -bisv /usr/include /usr/include/CC

Likewise you need to specify where to find g++ includes
but the docs in the tar file tell you about this.



B.
The Make runs some tests, g++ failed after Test5. The test
programs compile OK and seem to give the correct results,
so I ran a make from their own subdirectory, worked fine.
I've no idea why g++ stopped here???????
You'll see the error

C.
Scalar operator -= doesn't work     //or something similar

Its from the source, obviously its not implemented yet.




D.
1. SparseMatrix.c       comment out the atoi declarations
2. Banded.c             comment out #include prof.h
___________________________________________________________

-- 
Tom Ward

------------------------------

From: rockwell@nova.umd.edu (Raul Deluth Miller)
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.advocacy,biz.sco.general
Subject: Re: Opinions wanted about SCO-unix (vs AIX/Linux).
Date: 21 Mar 1994 07:03:25 -0500

Tom Fitzgerald:
.  Linux is unsupported; you can hope for help from the net, but you
.  can't get anyone to commit to supporting it.

Why do you say that?  What about:
        Cygnus Support                  (415)903-1418
        VWIS consulting                 (508)795-1190
        Morse Telecommunications        (516)887-4046

I know Cygnus provides support for Linux.  Also, I've seen
advertisements from the other two advertising support for Linux.
There are probably others supporting Linux by now.

Raul D. Miller
<rockwell@nova.umd.edu>

------------------------------

Date: 21 Mar 1994 12:33:00 +0100
From: chrimek@rimki.toppoint.de (Christoph Rimek)
Subject: Re: [Q] Forcing lilo to wait for the kernel specification
Reply-To: chrimek@tpki.toppoint.de

Hello

mmnuk@risc.uni-linz.ac.at wrote on 17.03.94:

> I have an 486DX2-66 PC booting linux with lilo. From time to time I
> need to boot MSDOS getting lilo's attention by the space-key.  The
> problem is that there is too little time between the POST-finished
> beep of the system and starting lilo (~ 1 s). .....

(1) Edit your /etc/lilo/config (old) or /etc/lilo.conf (new).
    Insert either:
                    delay = 30             (for a 30/10th seconds delay)

               or:
                    prompt
     (optionally):  timeout = 30           (the same 3 seconds delay)

    If you'd like to always get a special boot screen, use the
    "message = <your_boot_screen_textfile>" option. The latter may be
    the best way to replace an existing OS/2 Bootmanager  :-))

(2) Re-install LILO using the new configuration file.

That's all.
For further details refer to the documentation in /usr/src/lilo/*.

-cr


--
Christoph Rimek, Kiel, Germany  (+49 431 18307)      chrimek@toppoint.de
## CrossPoint v2.93 ##

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.unix.bsd
From: rps@gabriel (Rui Pedro Mendes Salgueiro)
Subject: Re: 4.4BSD-Lite (Was: BSD vs. Linux)
Reply-To: rps@mat.uc.pt
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 13:22:37 GMT

James W. Adams (jwa@yog-sothoth.dcrt.nih.gov) wrote:

: All this hoopla over 4.4BSD-Lite has me a bit confused.  According to
: the release announcement letter for 4.4BSD-Alpha, 4.4 Lite was to be
: essentially Net-2 with bug fixes, some enhancements and support for
: additional architectures, with no new kernel files and only a few
: additional programs.  Most of the real improvements in 4.4BSD were in
: the kernel interfaces and filesystems, code which the letter distinctly
: implied would *not* be in 4.4 Lite.

: Has this situation changed, or am I correct in assuming that the change
: in BSDI from Net-2 to 4.4-Lite will result in minimal functional
: benefit?

In the releases notes for BSD/386 1.1:
"Futures:
    BSD 4.4-Lite, including new filesystems features and performance"

--
 Rui Salgueiro |   Dpt. de Matematica    |"In my life / Why do I smile
 rps@mat.uc.pt | Universidade de Coimbra | at people who I'd much rather
 rps@inescc.pt |    Portugal - Europe    |   kick in the eye" - Morrissey 

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.unix.advocacy,biz.sco.general
From: RLOKER01@IC1D.HARRIS.COM  (ROBERT C. LOKERSON)
Subject: Re: BRACE YOURSELF, was Re: Opinions wanted about SCO-unix (vs AIX/Li
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 14:39:17 GMT

In Article <2md2sdINN6bh@faatcrl.faa.gov> "ebabin@faatcrl.faa.gov (Ed Babin)" says:
> : release new ones.  When you call them for tech support, what you usually get
> : is an "Oh-Why-are-you-bothering-me-don't-you-know-we're-Unix-Gods" attitude,
.......
> 
> Gee, consider yourself lucky.  I can't even get past the receptionist because
> I don't have a stinking service contract.  You would think they would like
> to be informed of their bugs.  Why should I bother to buy anymore of their 
> products if they don't support their current ones?
> 
.......
For sure... Microsoft arranged an evaluation copy of LANMANAGER 2.2.0 for SCO
and it (mostly) worked ok... Two small problems with our ultimate objectives
led me to find out the deal with SCO support.  My company is a major VAR for
SCO products, but we dont have a support contract, so no one will talk to me
at SCO.  The receptionist _DID_ give me the names of two consultant companies
which, she thought, might help me.  If that is the way SCO support works, I
share all the above (emotions).
  R.C. LOKERSON (BOB)      MAIL ADDRESS:      VOICE : 407.729.2257
  HARRIS MDSO/MIS/DCC/ATG     HARRIS E.S.S.   SMTP  : RLOKER01@IC1D.HARRIS.COM
  BLDG 15/RM 838              P.O. BOX 37     CCMAIL: RLOKER01
  PALM BAY, FLORIDA           MELBOURNE FL    FCC   : WA3PKX
                              32902           HOME  : 407.725.8024
   I wrote it, not MR HARRIS.
   "ANY CONCEPT NOT RELATED TO 'FONTS' WHICH CANNOT BE EXPRESSED IN 3 FONTS
   ... CANNOT BE EXPRESSED IN 3000 FONTS."

------------------------------

From: eyal@fir.canberra.edu.au (Eyal Lebedinsky)
Subject: Q: why no bootup messages in 'messages' in 1.0?
Date: 21 Mar 94 03:02:28 GMT

Hello Everybody,

Using Slackware 1.1.2, and with the 0.99pl15f kernel I was still getting
the bootup messages in /var/adm/messages. Then I installed the 1.0
kernel and now I only get messages that happen after the log server
starts. Does the new kernel loose the message 'ring' or is there some
new config or something that I am missing?

This is inportant since even with 50 lines svga mode I get many messages
scroll off the screen (too many scsi devices I guess...).
--
Regards
        Eyal Lebedinsky         eyal@ise.canberra.edu.au

------------------------------

From: iiitac@uk.ac.swan.pyr (Alan Cox)
Subject: Re: *** DON'T READ THIS BEFORE POSTING ***
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 13:47:10 GMT


It's very important to keep good support and also awareness from the highest
echelons of user problems. There are only three types of user problem

1.      Failure to discover where to start looking for documentation. The
HOWTO postings are a good cover for most of this

2.      Something not covered by the documentation. This is normally quite
fairly classifiable as a documentation bug. (Actually things are often covered
but not in the right place/way). The LDP people are doing a superb job on this
and they seem to have become the forgotten heroes of the project

3.      Some lazy [IYFEH] who can't be [IYFEH] to look in the manuals first.

There will always be a few of number 3, and often they can be pointed to
commercial support providers.. who are ideal for this..

Be careful distinguishing number 3 from someone who is new to things and
belongs in category 1.

Alan


------------------------------

From: iiitac@uk.ac.swan.pyr (Alan Cox)
Subject: Re: IBM MCA and Novell Netware [
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 14:15:47 GMT

In article <ag129.570.2D88930B@ucs.cam.ac.uk> ag129@ucs.cam.ac.uk (Alasdair Grant) writes:
>Novell's DOS client is just a piece of 80x86 machine code in a certain 
>format of executable file and making certain assumptions about interrupts 
>and control blocks.  All Linux needs is a general mechanism for 
>supporting this kind of code.  Why reverse-engineer or licence a program
>you already have?
This is like the great int13 hard disk saga but worse. It's almost impossible
to do without emulating the whole of DOS. In addition read your netware
license carefully. I seem to remember the DOS client is licensed for DOS only.

Linux supports both NFS (client/server) and Lan Manager/Pathworks/WfWg (server)
so why support a company who are being awkward.

Alan


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Mar 1994 22:29:00 MET
From: pit@p2.lxs.chg.imp.com (Peter Berger)
Subject: Filenames on Sunsite

ewt@sunSITE.unc.edu (Erik Troan) wrote:

 > In article <1994Mar5.205800.13706@thelake.mn.org>,
 > Steve Yelvington <steve@thelake.mn.org> wrote:
 >>
 >>I've noticed a lot of filenames on sunsite.unc.edu of this form:
 >>
 >>             xpaint2.1.1-linux.tgz
 >>
 >>The .tgz ending is fine for programs that are going to be stuffed into a DOS
 >>file system, but this filename obviously isn't DOS-compatible, so why use
 >>.tgz when you mean .tar.gz?
 >>

 > One good reason is to keep sunsite's INDEX files looking sane. Any
 > file
 > names of more then about 20 characters screw up the columns.

So, well, I'd try to _keep_ s.th. sane if it _IS_. It is not! I'd prefer usable
INDEX-files not "sane-looking" ones... (not to mention the "normal" file names
I'd like to see, too).

Got (or Had?, sorry, my english) some "surprises" when writing a script to
get the descriptions out of INDEX.whole.. Does the trailing white-spaces also
serve the "sane-looking" btw ? :->


bye,
    Peter

E-Mail: pit@lxs.chg.imp.com


------------------------------

From: a_alonso@iastate.edu (Alberto S Alonso)
Subject: CD-ROM and Linux. Why and which?
Date: 21 Mar 94 04:36:58 GMT

I've been planing on buying a cd-rom for a while, is either that or upgrade my
memory. But since I'm running Linux 24 hours a day,  I don't really see the 
point of having the cd-rom.  I receantly ordered the 3 cds offer and now I'll 
either borrow a friend's or buy mine.

The question is like this, Can I use the software that is going to come  in the
offer directly from the CD? Can I just mount it as a filesystem and save my 
hardrive space?

If that is posible wich is a nice CD-ROM that I could buy for a few bucks?

Any comments appreciated.

Thanks in advanced.

Alberto
E-mail: a_alonso@iastate.edu


------------------------------

From: bill@camco1.celestial.com (Bill Campbell)
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.advocacy,biz.sco.general
Subject: Re: Opinions wanted about SCO-unix (vs AIX/Linux).
Date: 21 Mar 1994 08:49:03 -0800

In <2mj7ll$58c@spool.cs.wisc.edu> jimr@shorty.cs.wisc.edu (Jim Robinson) writes:

:At least it sounds like SCO comes with a compiler, unlike SunOS 5.x
:(cheap bastards that they must be, can ANYONE give me a good reason
:besides greed that they left out such an important tool?)

No.  SCO doesn't come with compilers bundled.  This has been standard
practice on the AT&T side of Unix (as opposed to BSD vendors) ever
since I started using it in 1982.  Most of my clients are commercial
sites that don't have any use for the development system (especially
since perl is available :-), and don't need the additional expense of
manuals, disk space...  There is enough on the system to reconfigure
and link kernels which is all most commercial sites require.

I, on the other hand, feel handicapped if I don't have all the tools.

Bill
-- 
INTERNET:  bill@Celestial.COM   Bill Campbell; Celestial Software
UUCP:   ...!thebes!camco!bill   8545 SE 68th Street
                   camco!bill   Mercer Island, WA 98040; (206) 947-5591
SPEED COSTS MONEY -- HOW FAST DO YOU WANT TO GO?

------------------------------

From: rocker@rock.b11.ingr.com (Ray Rocker)
Subject: Re: [1.0] Linux, Comments
Date: 21 Mar 1994 16:33:34 GMT

In article <2m7m79INN5ft@gambier.ugrad.cs.ubc.ca>, w6f192@rick.cs.ubc.ca (Shawn Jeremye Smith) writes:
|> Well after all the excitement about 1.0 I would just like to make a few
|> comments.  After running pl15h for about a month I switched to PRE-ALPHA1.0
|> about 2 weeks ago.  I pulled the new gcc libs and rebuilt my kernel.  This
|> kernel was excellent with a vast speed improvement over pl15h that I had been
|> running previously.  Now when I pulled the 1.0 release I was very disappointed
|> in the speed of this kernel.  I found that I has less availible memory for
|> user processes.  I have seen other people posting about changes in buffer size
|> causing increased swapping.  What has happened here?  

I finally took the plunge and upgraded everything on my box this weekend:
from SLS 1.03 + 0.99.12 kernel + XF86 1.x (I forget)
to Slackware 1.1.2 + 1.0 kernel + XF86 2.1.

I was also quite alarmed at the memory usage as reported by 'free':
I have 16MB RAM, and with the old kernel+X (sitting idle) I had 8MB free,
but now I only have 1MB free! Upon a closer look I saw that most of the 
difference was in the buffers, which is not a Bad Thing(tm). I kicked off
a kernel build while in X and the buffer usage shrank accordingly to make 
room for gcc. My swap partition didn't get touched, and I noticed no
speed reduction. So I was relieved.

Oh and my BogoMips went up too :)
From 7.24 to 7.8-something (I don't recall exactly). I have a 386DX-40 btw.

Loading the new kernel and XF86 on top of Slackware was painless. 

One thing that would be nice if someone were so inclined, is a junk-removal
script for people going from SLS-->Slackware. With the new FSSTND in place,
a lot of utilities changed location and hence don't get overwritten by
the new distributions. Like: /etc/getty, /usr/bin/ls, /etc/telnetd, /etc/ftpd,
et al. I removed a lot of them by hand to free up disk space.

Building the 1.0 kernel was such a pleasure compared to 0.99.12.
No more of those annoying "Please re-run make config and answer yes to
the {sound card | CDROM | (whatever)} questions", as I have no need for
those drivers. Count me as a satisfied consumer...

-- ray (more comments later)

------------------------------

From: rbrewer@rwb114.rh.psu.edu (Robert W. Brewer)
Subject: Re: [Request] Mosaic 2.2+term fixed
Date: 21 Mar 1994 17:09:08 GMT
Reply-To: rbrewer@psu.edu

Mark Denovich (madst38+@pitt.edu) wrote:
>Could someone please compile v2.2 of NSCA's Mosaic w/ term capabilities
>with the FORMS fix.  (apparently is fixed if compiled w/ Motif 1.2.2)

Yes, please!  :)

-Rob
--
Robert W. Brewer  "Whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him 
rbrewer@psu.edu    will never thirst."  --Jesus Christ (John 4:14)

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.386bsd.misc
From: elandal@tower.nullnet.fi (Ismo Peltonen)
Subject: Re: Impressions: FreeBSD vs Linux
Reply-To: Ismo.Peltonen@tower.NullNet.FI
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 03:25:21 GMT

In article <1994Mar18.084355.19503@atlas.com>
        Brant Katkansky (brantk@atlas.com) wrote:
> I have been running Linux (Slackware 1.1.1) on my 486 at home for
> several months, and although most of my experiences have been positive,
> I felt that Linux was lacking in some areas, so I decides to look at
> FreeBSD.

[...]

> * FreeBSD has a more polished look and feel.  Linux definately looks and
> feels like a beta product.  FreeBSD seems to have consistancy where
> Linux does not.

What do people mean with this (`looks and feels like a beta/not finished')?
What in Linux makes that unfinished look'n'feel?

(The thing I most would like to see now is different keymaps/fonts on
 different multiscreens, but I can well live without. If nothing comes
 out, I'll probably hack something that satisfies me.)

I have yet to try new things with linux (I have hard time trying to keep
up with updates - last time I got route-binary I noticed I'd better
update my libs, which lead to downloading about 7 megs, some installing,
some compiling, and cursing for not to having yet changed my system to
conform to FSSTND), but whatever I've compiled has been fairly easy. Of
course having had Xenix before might have some influence in that
(anything on Xenix was a major headache).

> brantk@atlas.com | "Electricity is made up of very small particles called
> Atlas Telecom    |  electrons, which you cannot see unless you have been
> Portland, OR     |  drinking."

--
Elandal (aka Ismo Peltonen)                    ## snail  Hanuripolku 5B15
Home (UUCP)   Ismo.Peltonen@tower.nullnet.fi   ## mail     00420 Helsinki
Univ (inet)   Ismo.Peltonen@Helsinki.FI        ##                 Finland
Errare humanum est..                           ## phone     +358-0-537515
                 vdeVDE <- Is Your link 8bit clean?

------------------------------

From: bobp@missmarple.east.sun.com
Subject: Re: NEW PRODUCT : 3 Linux CD's and a T-Shirt for $29.
Date: 21 Mar 1994 17:59:34 GMT
Reply-To: bobp@missmarple.east.sun.com


Can anyone explain how it costs $14.95 to ship 3 cd's?  It's not like there
is any heavy documentation.  Maybe it's a *really really* thick t-shirt?

--bob


------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.386bsd.apps
From: mark@taylor.wyvern.com (Mark A. Davis)
Subject: Re: DOOM for X
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 14:36:32 GMT

borsburn@mcs.kent.edu (Bret Orsburn) writes:

>>Granted, it is only logical to even attempt to run a local client on an
>>Xterminal if:
>>
>>1) It does not require storage
>>2) It does not consume large amounts of resources locally
>>3) It can still be remotely configured and upgraded
>>4) It is very tied to the Xserver in some way (like the window manager)
>>5) It produces benefits which outweigh the efforts and side effects

>OK, how about this hypothetical situation:

>You've got a heterogeneous network (that X allowed you to build, to your
>great advantage) including X terminals from three different vendors. You
>have among your user population people with strong preferences for four
>different window managers.

>So, as the site administrator, you have to make four different window managers
>work under 3 different, arbitrarily restricted, (perhaps proprietary)
>"mini OS"es.

No you don't- you can just run the window manager on the host and not try
to use it as a local client.  Besides, most Xterminals come with local binaries
for several window managers (mine came with mwm, olwm, and twm).

>Are you absolutely sure that using a non-local window manager was such a
>big problem that you are willing to discard everything you know about
>software development and maintenance methodologies in order to "fix" this
>theoretical "problem"?

Hey, I wasn't the one who thought running a non-local window manager was
a problem.....  It is, by far, much easier to do on the host.
-- 
  /--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
  | Mark A. Davis    | Lake Taylor Hospital | Norfolk, VA (804)-461-5001x431 |
  | Sys.Administrator|  Computer Services   | mark@taylor.wyvern.com   .uucp |
  \--------------------------------------------------------------------------/

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.386bsd.apps
From: mark@taylor.wyvern.com (Mark A. Davis)
Subject: Re: DOOM for X
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 14:46:50 GMT

borsburn@mcs.kent.edu (Bret Orsburn) writes:

>>This is the argument Sun tried to use (an failed at).  Sun is now selling
>>workstations running X server software under the name "X terminal".  Sun
>>wasn't very successful selling that world view, and they had a marketing
>>department being paid big $ trying to back their story up.  8-).

>Actually, you've made my case for me. The price point for X terminals has
>been kept so high (by creeping featurism) that workstations can compete
>against them head-to-head.

No, that is completely incorrect.  The price of the actual hardware is
NOTHING compared to maintenance and support costs.... this is why Xterminals
exist, because suport costs are almost nil compared to workstations.

>>[...] given what AT&T now charges for the
>>beasts, they can afford to support a couple of programmers here and there.
>>8-).

>And you've made my point again.

>If X terminals aren't cheaper than workstations, the motivation for using
>them becomes *very* weak.

They ARE cheaper than "workstations", first in the hardware cost, but as
I just said above, companies typically will spend at least the cost of the
hardware in maintenance and support services for workstations (or clones)
each year.  Xterminals have a huge advantage in this area.

>I think X terminals are useful and important, so I think we (as customers)
>should try *not* to apply pressure on the vendors to add features that drive
>the costs up and ultimately undermine the market.

Oh, I agree.... if you are needing lots of local clients, you should be looking
at workstations and not Xterminals!!! :)

-- 
  /--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
  | Mark A. Davis    | Lake Taylor Hospital | Norfolk, VA (804)-461-5001x431 |
  | Sys.Administrator|  Computer Services   | mark@taylor.wyvern.com   .uucp |
  \--------------------------------------------------------------------------/

------------------------------


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