Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #859
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Thu, 24 Mar 94 03:13:19 EST

Linux-Misc Digest #859, Volume #1                Thu, 24 Mar 94 03:13:19 EST

Contents:
  Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring (Matt Welsh)
  Re: Wine status March 11, 1994 (Michael Bryan)
  Speaking of selection (VC cut&paste) (Filip M Gieszczykiewicz)
  Re: Multiport (rocketboard) question (Russell Nelson)
  Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring (Matt Welsh)
  Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring (John F. Haugh II)
  Re: "Hacker's Paradise?" (was Re: Linux-1.0-inline-asm uploaded) (Whitstler)
  Re: NEW PRODUCT : 3 Linux CD's and a T-Shi (Luis M Torres)
  Re: Maximum serial port speed (REPOST due to non-propogation) (Bill Heiser)
  Re: writing to a *linux* floppy (Ulf Bartelt)
  Need network info (POP, ftp, etc) (travis jensen)
  Linux (Melvin Parrish)
  Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring (DAVID L. JOHNSON)
  Re: Impressions: FreeBSD vs Linux (Ismo Peltonen)
  Re: BRACE YOURSELF, was Re: Opinions wanted about SCO-unix (vs AIX/Linux). (Keith Smith)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Crossposted-To: news.groups
From: mdw@cs.cornell.edu (Matt Welsh)
Subject: Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 19:37:30 GMT

In article <2mplni$eoc@bmerha64.bnr.ca> mlord@bnr.ca (Mark Lord) writes:
>In article <1994Mar23.023351.18346@cs.cornell.edu> mdw@cs.cornell.edu writes:
>..
>>I'm more than willing to sacrifice the complete OPENNESS of these newsgroups
>
>That's Nice.  I'm happy that *you* have an idea you like.
>What about the other 20,000 people in this group?

I don't know. Look at the results of the poll. Most people were in favour of
it. If you'd like perhaps we could have a "real" vote, which I would expect
would turn out to have roughly the same results. 

>>Ian isn't talking about moderating the group---he's talking about enforcing
>
>He's talking about a massive waste of bandwidth, that will result in an even
>more massive reverse-flow of flames.  Very stupid.

What's a "massive waste of bandwidth"? Please explain yourself.

>If Ian wants a moderated newsgroup, he knows the procedures for trying
>to create one.  This particular group is *unmoderated*.

You are not listening. Ian is NOT proposing to moderate ANYTHING. He
is talking about sending e-mail asking people to use a certain convention
for subject lines. I don't know how you can equate that with moderation;
being a moderator I should know that they are nothing alike. 

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.windows.x.i386unix,comp.os.386bsd.apps
From: michael@resonex.com (Michael Bryan)
Subject: Re: Wine status March 11, 1994
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 12:14:19 GMT

In article <1994Mar22.170009.5196@kf8nh.wariat.org> bsa@kf8nh.wariat.org (Brandon S. Allbery) writes:
>
>Where have you been the past few months?  OSF made the Motif specs public as
>part of the COSE CDE project.

But not the code.  In fact, they've increased their licensing fees for
said code.  Fair enough in a capitalistic environment, but I can't imagine
X becoming as popular so quickly if the software wasn't freely available.

Of course, there are efforts afoot to get a free-software version of
Motif up and running.  Hopefully these will work well, and be available
before the next standard comes along.  ;-)

-- 
____     Children of a future age      ____
\  /    Reading this indignant page    \  /
 \/     Know that in a former time      \/          Michael Bryan
   Love, sweet love, was thought a crime            michael@resonex.com

------------------------------

From: filip@alpha.smi.med.pitt.edu (Filip M Gieszczykiewicz)
Subject: Speaking of selection (VC cut&paste)
Date: 23 Mar 94 23:08:37 GMT


        
        Greetings. I [ab]use selection and can't live without it but
        I would kill for my middle button to select in BOX mode as
        opposed to the standard MARK mode on the left button. Is it
        possible? I don't have the knowledge or time to do it myself
        so have to settle for starting up joe in another window,
        cutting, pasting in joe, using joe to do BOX delete, cutting
        that, and posting in final screen... Pain in the Neck (tm) :-)

        If the author of selection was running out of ideas on
        what to put in the next version... :-)

        Take care.
--
+-->Filip "I'll buy a vowel" Gieszczykiewicz | E-mail: filip@alpha.med.pitt.edu
| ftp to bode.ee.ualberta.ca and get OLD electonics faq from /pub/cookbook/faq
| Checkout: ftp bode.ee.ualberta.ca and get file /pub/cookbook/contents. Neat.
| Making money with CS and spending it on EE, robotics, windsurfing, & dreams.

------------------------------

From: nelson@crynwr.crynwr.com (Russell Nelson)
Subject: Re: Multiport (rocketboard) question
Date: 23 Mar 1994 18:13:15 GMT

In article <764358185snz@dungeon.demon.co.uk> dale@dungeon.demon.co.uk ("\"Thomas Dale") writes:

   Wondering if any one has tried the board from Comtrol called the
   Rocket Board on a linux machine yet and if it worked well.

At least one of their engineers has heard of Linux.  He needs to
convince his management that there is money to be made by supporting
Linux.  You could help him by ordering a board from them with the big
bold legend "MUST HAVE A LINUX DRIVER".  Of course, since they don't,
they'll have to refuse your PO.  But at least then they'll know that
they're losing sales because they don't have a Linux driver.

--
-russ <nelson@crynwr.com>      ftp.msen.com:pub/vendor/crynwr/crynwr.wav
Crynwr Software   | Crynwr Software sells packet driver support | ask4 PGP key
11 Grant St.      | +1 315 268 1925 (9201 FAX)    | Quakers do it in the light
Potsdam, NY 13676 | LPF member - ask me about the harm software patents do.

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: news.groups
From: mdw@cs.cornell.edu (Matt Welsh)
Subject: Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 1994 03:28:18 GMT

In article <2mqsur$t6j@bmerha64.bnr.ca> mlord@bnr.ca (Mark Lord) writes:
>I frequently post replies to queries by other posters in this group.
>A peculiarity of our corporate installation prevents me from easily using
>email instead, and the reponses are often of general interest.
>
>What I object to are the numerous droppings (and waste of communications
>bandwidth) I would receive as email in response to my responses.  

Why would you receive e-mail for your responses? Do you understand Ian's
proposal at all? 

As long as you have an appropriate keyword on your subject line, you
don't get e-mail from Ian's server. It's as simple as that. Unless, of
course, you refuse to use a keyword. In which case you solicit the 
"droppings" by refusing to do so.

>The ones
>I receive from alt.* linux groups already (another net.facist) are bad enough,

All right, so you define anyone who tries to exert pressure on USENET as
a net.fascist. Wake up, Mark. USENET isn't a democracy. 

>and are just about at the point of discouraging me from helping other linux
>enthusiasts.

You don't seem to be n favour of helping anyone by opposing this proposal.
You still haven't justified yourself.

>And this whole stinkin' proposal is in the name of "helping"
>folks like me.  Ha!

Exactly.

>There are numerous other groups on the net with similar traffic levels,
>and similar nuisance levels.  Use of threaded/selective newsreaders works
>just fine,

No, it doesn't. If it did, I would be advocating that quite explicitly. 
I have already said that you can't do what we need to do on the newsreader
level. 

>and still permits folks who don't regularly post to place their
>one question of a lifetime without fear of immediate "enforcement" 
>from a self-appointed "moderator" of an unmoderated newsgroup.

Mark, I strongly suggest that you go re-read Ian's proposal before you 
expound any more. Nothing about the proposal "enforces" anything, nor
does it "moderate" the group. Apparently you very much misunderstand what
he's trying to do.

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: news.groups
From: jfh@rpp386 (John F. Haugh II)
Subject: Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring
Reply-To: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 1994 02:41:39 GMT

In article <1994Mar23.021141.17125@cs.cornell.edu> mdw@cs.cornell.edu (Matt Welsh) writes:
>Ian clearly said that he would go ahead with his proposal based on the
>results of the straw poll. If you didn't bother to vote NO to it, then
>he does have mandate to do so.

USENET has a set of rules which predate LINUX and the zillions of people
who post to the LINUX groups.  None of the rules mention "straw polls"
or provide for the concept of a net.fascist to come along and change the
moderation status of newgroups.

And good intentions don't count ...
-- 
John F. Haugh II  [ NRA-ILA ] [ Kill Barney ] !'s: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh
Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151 [GOP][DoF #17][PADI][ENTJ]   @'s: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org
 There are three documents that run my life: The King James Bible, the United
 States Constitution, and the UNIX System V Release 4 Programmer's Reference.

------------------------------

From: slouken@talbot.cs.ucdavis.edu (Whitstler)
Subject: Re: "Hacker's Paradise?" (was Re: Linux-1.0-inline-asm uploaded)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 23:06:15 GMT

Paul Tomblin (ptomblin@gandalf.ca) wrote:
: Does this mean that separate bug-fix releases are going to continue on 1.0
: while the hackers go nuts on 1.1?  I'd like to see that - work continuing on
: making 1.0 as stable as possible while new enhancements are only done in 1.1.

        I would like to see this also.  While I have only two machines
at work running Linux, they are being used by support personnel (me)
and we can't afford to spend much time working on our own boxes.

Hmm.. maybe 1.2 could be a merger release of the stability of 1.0 and
hacking upgrades from 1.1?

: My machine at home, on the other hand, will continue to track the "hackers
: paradise" probably.

        Amen. :)

---

        -Sam

---

------------------------------

From: luisma@rmece02.upr.clu.edu (Luis M Torres)
Subject: Re: NEW PRODUCT : 3 Linux CD's and a T-Shi
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 16:00:29 GMT

Baranski, A.S. (v922215@si.hhs.nl) wrote:
: >
: >Just to buck the trend, I have received a reply. 
: >
: What cd's and t-shirt

I also received a reply, but asked about the SH costs and other stuff
and have not received a reply about it yet.

--
Luis M Torres | luisma@rmece02.upr.clu.edu | Phone: (809) 265-4039
University of Puerto Rico - Mayaguez | Computer Engineering Department
                   Save the planet... code in PERL!

------------------------------

From: bill@bhhome.ci.net (Bill Heiser)
Subject: Re: Maximum serial port speed (REPOST due to non-propogation)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 15:17:15 GMT

nemosoft@void.tdcnet.nl (Nemosoft Unv.) writes:

># We can't get faster than this...
>115200 #  B50 # B50 CLOCAL SANE -ISTRIP # Fast login: # 115200

Why not?  Does this mean we wont' be able to use 230000 for use
with Hayes special serial card and 28.8 modems?

Also, I hope your question about your changes being moved to the
kernel sources comes to pass.  This could be a real hassle, making
all of these changes every time we upgrade to a new kernel!

-- 
Bill Heiser:    bill@bhhome.ci.net,  heiser@world.std.com

------------------------------

From: stub@pce60.rz.tu-clausthal.de (Ulf Bartelt)
Subject: Re: writing to a *linux* floppy
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 1994 04:30:05 GMT

khockenb@vaxc.stevens-tech.edu wrote:
: In article <1994Feb26.203603.11235@belvedere.sbay.org>,
  root@belvedere.sbay.org (David E. Fox) writes:
: > This begs a question:
: > 
: > Why do people insist on making little mount point directories like 
: > /floppy, /dos, /a, etc., when a perfectly good mount point most likely
: > exists in their filesystems for just this purpose?
: > 
: > BTW, it's called /mnt.

: Well, I can't answer for other people, but in my case I have a /dos 
: because /mnt is meant to be a *temporary* mount point, and keep my DOS 
: partition permanently mounted.  /floppy exists for those times I'm using 
: /mnt to nfs mount the machine I keep my linux archive on (a vax running 
: ultrix) and copy straight to floppy over the network.

I merged these ideas: under /mnt I have mount points for systems named like
the system exporting this directory and mount points with device names.
So on nepal I mount himalaya:/xyz to /mnt/himalaya and a floppy (if used) to
/mnt/fd0. If I had a DOS partition (once I had 2 of them ! :-) ) I'd mount'em
to /mount/dos/DOSDRIVELETTER...

Sure it's my private non standard rubbish, but I love the naming scheme when
doing a mount -twhatever /dev/fdX /mnt/fdX .

If I need a temporary mount point, I temporary create a mount point in
/tmp, /usr/tmp or ~/tmp and throw it away after unmounting...
...that's the way I interprete *temporary*...

--
Ulf Bartelt | 2:2437/120.666@fidonet.org | stub@zaphod.in.tu-clausthal.de
            |                            | stub@linux.rz.tu-clausthal.de

------------------------------

From: jensen%hellgate.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (travis jensen)
Subject: Need network info (POP, ftp, etc)
Date: 22 Mar 94 22:02:54 MST
Reply-To: jensen%peruvian.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu

I am setting up a linux box on the Internet that will be used as
a mail server for a bunch of macs and as an anonymous ftp site.
I am using slackware 1.1.1 with pl15 (soon to be upgraded to 1.0)
on a 486dx33.  The slackware packages comes with the net-32 package.

First, is there a POP2 server for linux?  Some of the mac software
won't run with the POP3 server.  Also, where can I find documentation
on the POP server?  I have *no* idea how to use it.

Second, I've got ftp working on the machine, but when I do an
anonymous ftp to it, I can't see anything.  How do I set it up
so I can see the directories when logged in via anon ftp?  Also,
when the ftpd logs file transferes, does it log the users IP
address or the IP number?

Thanks for your help with this,

Travis

--
Travis A. Jensen                
jensen@peruvian.utah.edu  

"aaahhhhg-g-g-geeeeee"--Alexander Jensen (10/6/93)

I am a Scandanavian-American (5 generations removed
                              from Scandanavia)

------------------------------

From: Melvin.Parrish@f370.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Melvin Parrish)
Date: 21 Mar 94 12:59:00 -0500
Subject: Linux

I was woundering if anyone knows where I can get the "complete"
Linux package? I would rather not get by ftp, because it takes too 
long. Maybe someone has it, and I can Freq. it  Thanks for any help.
 
-Mel (mel57@gcr.com)

------------------------------

From: dlj0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DAVID L. JOHNSON)
Subject: Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 1994 03:38:45 GMT

In article <2mq233$rdn@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk>, iwj@cam-orl.co.uk (Ian Jackson) writes:
>
I thought this was a bad idea when I first read it, and I still do.  However,
it seems to ahve changed from what I read -- and voted about.  You were going
to auto-reject every first post -- however you defined that.  Is that still 
part of the scheme?

Before you go ahead with this you really have to have an official vote, on
these newsgroups, not just a straw poll on news.groups.  A straw poll is
just that, a way to see if there is enough support to put a plan together for
a real vote.  

Before you do this, at least tell us what all we voted for.  


-- 

David L. Johnson                             ID:  dlj0@lehigh.edu
Department of Mathematics
Lehigh University, Bethlehem, PA 18015       Telephone: 610-758-3759 (office)
                                                        610-828-3708 (home)
MS-DOS: Just say No!

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.386bsd.misc
From: elandal@tower.nullnet.fi (Ismo Peltonen)
Subject: Re: Impressions: FreeBSD vs Linux
Reply-To: Ismo.Peltonen@tower.NullNet.FI
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 06:44:23 GMT

In article <2mmlhpINNc3s@bonnie.sax.de>
        J Wunsch (j@uriah.sax.de) wrote:
> elandal@tower.nullnet.fi (Ismo Peltonen) writes:

> Q:
> >What do people mean with this (`looks and feels like a beta/not finished')?
> >What in Linux makes that unfinished look'n'feel?

> A:
> > (I have hard time trying to keep
> >up with updates - last time I got route-binary I noticed I'd better
> >update my libs, which lead to downloading about 7 megs, some installing,
> >some compiling, and cursing for not to having yet changed my system to
> >conform to FSSTND)...

> What you're describing there *is* the ``beta look'n feel''. Inacceptable
> for a release. Not that FreeBSD doesn't need beta's or development -
> but people getting a release are not suspected to run into those upgrade-
> by-the-patch-of-the-day troubles.

Of course I wouldn't need to upgrade everything every day. I just happen
to want to keep my kernel within at most two patch levels of the
latest.. And, if I grabbed only sources (no binary distributions), I
wouldn't need to upgrade everything as often.

Often when I grab some source package, I just make config (or sh
configure, or whatever), make, and make install. That's it. But, when
I grab an odd binary (eg. when testing slip, a friend uploaded new route
binary) I may have to upgrade something I wouldn't otherwise need to do.

> With {Free,Net}BSD, you can easily live with one distribution on a fairly
> stable basis. Unless you really need the new features of an upcoming
> release, you might stay with your old one until the new stuff is out
> of beta. (Though i'm running a FreeBSD-almost-current at home for
> development purposes, i'm just sitting on a box that ran the 1.0-GAMMA(!)
> version for quarter of a year, it was quite stable with average uptimes
> of 14 days or more.)

I know. I get longest uptimes when I'm not at home.. When I'm at home, I
decide to check what's new, and then just _have to_ grab everything new
and build the latest, greatest things to see if I can crash it now :-)
Eg. I could let this system run as it is. I don't think there is
anything that really needs much work. Still, I'm about to shutdown and
reboot with /vmlinuz.test, which is the latest, greatest kernel.

Oh yes, what's that ``one source distribution, juts make world and all
utilities You've ever wanted are built and installed'' thing? I know
I've eliminated things from the distribution I grabbed, added new, and
so on.. I don't want to have everything, and I know I want to have some
things that should never belong to normal distributions.. So, I rather
grab packages I want, compile them, install them, and am happy.

I know I _could_ write a Makefile to /usr/src that built and installed
everything, but I don't want to. I want to do it to each package at a
time, hack and slash here and there, and never install everything in one
session. And most packages can be forgotten, removed, gzipped, or
otherwise handled after they are installed once.

> cheers, J"org                             work:    joerg_wunsch@tcd-dresden.de
>                                           private:   joerg_wunsch@uriah.sax.de
> Steinbach's Guideline for Systems Programming:
>         Never test for an error condition you don't know how to handle.

--
Elandal (aka Ismo Peltonen)                    ## snail  Hanuripolku 5B15
Home (UUCP)   Ismo.Peltonen@tower.nullnet.fi   ## mail     00420 Helsinki
Univ (inet)   Ismo.Peltonen@Helsinki.FI        ##                 Finland
Errare humanum est..                           ## phone     +358-0-537515
                 vdeVDE <- Is Your link 8bit clean?

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.unix.advocacy,biz.sco.general
From: keith@ksmith.com (Keith Smith)
Subject: Re: BRACE YOURSELF, was Re: Opinions wanted about SCO-unix (vs AIX/Linux).
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 94 02:24:57 GMT

In article <Cn3D9v.Cyp@sixhub.tmr.com>, Bill Davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com> wrote:
>  AIX is not all that bad on compatibility, but the sysadm bears little
>resemblance to UNIX, and the patch procedures are slow beyond belief. I
>can install SCO or UNISYS complete in less than half the time it takes
>to apply a patch tape from IBM.

Sounds like an AS/400 PTF tape I applied many moons ago.  24-28 HOURS
after it started I called T/S telling them I thought it had hung up, but
the tape was still spinning, and by the time they called back, POOF, a
screen had come up on the console :)

Followup-To: alt.folklore.computers
-- 
Keith Smith          keith@ksmith.com              5719 Archer Rd.
Digital Designs      BBS 1-910-423-4216            Hope Mills, NC 28348-2201
Somewhere in the Styx of North Carolina ...

------------------------------


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