Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #862
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Thu, 24 Mar 94 16:13:14 EST

Linux-Misc Digest #862, Volume #1                Thu, 24 Mar 94 16:13:14 EST

Contents:
  Re: Slackware 1.2.0 YES! (Janne Sinkkonen)
  Linux on a portable (Mirza Manar Hussain)
  Re: Wine status March 11, 1994 (Mark A. Davis)
  Re: DOOM for X (Mark A. Davis)
  Re: Bug in mv (gnuutils) under linux (mark benedetto king)
  Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring (Dan Swartzendruber)
  Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring (Thomas G. McWilliams)
  Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring (Eric Dittman)
  Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring (Rick Slater)
  A few Linux Q's (Spawn)
  Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring (Thomas Koenig)
  Re: Emergency!! **Infinite loop in boot** (Kevin Lentin)
  Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring (Russell Nelson)
  Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring (Steven Whitlatch)
  Re: Looking for color version of Slackware labels logo (Mark Hessling)
  Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring (Mark Lord)
  Slackware, NetBSD, FreeBSD and more on a single CDROM (Christian Seyb)
  Re: MEM vs. CPU power?? (Michael Griffith)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: sinkkone@serifos.Helsinki.FI (Janne Sinkkonen)
Subject: Re: Slackware 1.2.0 YES!
Date: 24 Mar 1994 14:25:41 +0200

In article <2mpk3d$av9@cc.tut.fi>, Tero Paananen <p116711@cc.tut.fi> wrote:
>Spent the last evening installing Slackware 1.2.0 and I have to say
>that, if installing Linux was any easier, it would probably be illegal :)
>Nice job Pat (and all the rest involved).

So did I. Have to say the installation program is very clever and cool!
So far everything has been working fine.

--
Janne

------------------------------

From: mmh@doc.ic.ac.uk (Mirza Manar Hussain)
Subject: Linux on a portable
Date: 24 Mar 1994 12:35:24 -0000


Has anyone got Linux working on a portable computer?
If so which one etc?

Manar

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.windows.x.i386unix
From: mark@taylor.wyvern.com (Mark A. Davis)
Subject: Re: Wine status March 11, 1994
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 13:42:58 GMT

zenon@resonex.com (Zenon Fortuna) writes:

>The NEXTSTEP got the acceptance from HP and Sun, they speak about the
>OpenSTEP coming *standard* ...

Yeah, right......  I don't think COSE will agree with those sentiments
-- 
  /--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
  | Mark A. Davis    | Lake Taylor Hospital | Norfolk, VA (804)-461-5001x431 |
  | Sys.Administrator|  Computer Services   | mark@taylor.wyvern.com   .uucp |
  \--------------------------------------------------------------------------/

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.386bsd.apps
From: mark@taylor.wyvern.com (Mark A. Davis)
Subject: Re: DOOM for X
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 13:50:32 GMT

terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) writes:

>Again, from the same perspective, window management services are something
>the X terminal vender should supply.  Check out NCD and NCR.  The only
>exceptions to this are bogus X terminals anyway, where the server runs on the
>UNIX [host] and uses some dumb protocol for talking to the terminal and getting
>gross drawing capability out of it.

We call that "Qume" :)      Yuck!  :o

>Generally speaking, any large business that wishes to stay in business and
>spends on X will pick *one* user interface, and will probably pick *one*
>terminal vender.

Yep, that IS the world we live in.  But it seems many on the net just CANNOT
picture how huge support costs are.

>One 10Mb/s wire is only capable of supporting 260 full bandwidth 38.4
>connections going on simultaneously.  X bandwidth is considerably higher
>ieven though typical usage of text terminals would not consume the full
>38.4 per terminal, and drops the number of supportable sessions considerably
>-- to well below the 254 addresses allowed on a typical 8 bit logical subnet.

>The problem then is to reduce wire traffic, and the simplest way to do this
>effectively is to divide by 2-3 the number of packets on the wire by moving
>the window manager into the terminal.

And by being careful.  Nothing wastes more bandwidth than NOT having backing
store activated [Xterminals] or by allowing "cutesy" animation programs....

-- 
  /--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
  | Mark A. Davis    | Lake Taylor Hospital | Norfolk, VA (804)-461-5001x431 |
  | Sys.Administrator|  Computer Services   | mark@taylor.wyvern.com   .uucp |
  \--------------------------------------------------------------------------/

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: gnu.utils.bug
From: king@cs.wcu.edu (mark benedetto king)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 1994 09:55:14 GMT
Subject: Re: Bug in mv (gnuutils) under linux

davison@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au (Andrew Davison) writes:

>Found this while doing some housecleaning. I was trying to move a file to a
>fat partition. This is the last bit of the strace for the command.

[...stack trace deleted...]

>Obviously mv tries to change the ownership of the file but cannot do it 
>on the fat file system.

You can't, as far as I know, mv files across fs's.
history of mv:
a long, long time ago, people just did
 link( old, new );
 unlink( old );
and called it mv.....the only problem is when you try that across
fs's, link(); will fail....no use keeping identical inode numbers
if you're on a different superblock....many other problems arose
out of these system calls (mostly because they weren't atomic).
(one line, basically)....so, in our new and fruitful days, we have
rename();

lets grep the kernel source for rename, shall we?

/usr/src/linux/fs/namei.c     and
/usr/src/linux/fs/insert_your_favorite_fs_type/namei.c

contain definitions of rename.  If you'll look very carefully,
you'll see where it returns an errno for moving across fs'es.

king@tinuviel.cs.wcu.edu


------------------------------

From: dswartz@pugsley.osf.org (Dan Swartzendruber)
Crossposted-To: news.groups
Subject: Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring
Date: 24 Mar 1994 17:08:12 GMT

In article <2msf73$17q@nz12.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>, ig25@fg70.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de (Thomas Koenig) writes:
> Dan Swartzendruber (dswartz@pugsley.osf.org) wrote in article <2msaer$ldn@paperboy.osf.org>:
> 
> >This was precisely my point.  While I don't doubt Ian's good intentions,
> >I was more than a little annoyed by this backdoor circumvention of well
> >defined USENET rules.
> 
> I don't think this area IS covered by existing rules; if you can
> cite any, I'd be interested to know.
> 
> Of course, you might argue (in fact, I think you are arguing) that the
> creation guidelines should apply by analogy, althouth the guidelines
> themselves specifically reject such a notion.

If he doesn't in any way prevent my non-complying post from appearing
in the c.o.l.* groups, you are correct.  My only real complaint was
that calling it a straw poll has the definite implication that the vote
was only information-gathering, not for the purpose of actually changing
the effective operation of the groups.

-- 

#include <std_disclaimer.h>

Dan S.

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: news.groups
From: tgm@netcom.com (Thomas G. McWilliams)
Subject: Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 1994 16:49:27 GMT

John F. Haugh II (jfh@rpp386) wrote:
: USENET has a set of rules which predate LINUX and the zillions of people
: who post to the LINUX groups.  None of the rules mention "straw polls"
: or provide for the concept of a net.fascist to come along and change the
: moderation status of newgroups.
:
: And good intentions don't count ...

Yes, Ian should have worked within the rules and not used the subterfuge
of a "straw poll". And Ian's discarding Usenet convention such as the
overmajority rule is unconscionable. Perhaps we should run our 
government the same way ... let the New York Times take straw polls and
change the laws accordingly ...

Of course Ian has no more authority or status than the newest Usenet
greenhorn even though he'd like others to believe otherwise.

Thomas

------------------------------

From: dittman@skitzo.dseg.ti.com (Eric Dittman)
Crossposted-To: news.groups
Subject: Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring
Date: 24 Mar 94 10:46:08 CST

In article <1994Mar24.032818.6498@cs.cornell.edu>, mdw@cs.cornell.edu (Matt Welsh) writes:
> In article <2mqsur$t6j@bmerha64.bnr.ca> mlord@bnr.ca (Mark Lord) writes:
>>What I object to are the numerous droppings (and waste of communications
>>bandwidth) I would receive as email in response to my responses.  
> 
> Why would you receive e-mail for your responses? Do you understand Ian's
> proposal at all? 
> 
> As long as you have an appropriate keyword on your subject line, you
> don't get e-mail from Ian's server. It's as simple as that. Unless, of
> course, you refuse to use a keyword. In which case you solicit the 
> "droppings" by refusing to do so.

Someone could use the same kind of argument for just about any
behavior.

It's called "blaming the victim".
-- 
Eric Dittman                  Texas Instruments - Component Test Facility
dittman@skitzo.dseg.ti.com    (214) 480-7313
Disclaimer:  Not even my opinions.  I found them by the side of the road.

------------------------------

From: slater@gandalf.nrlssc.navy.mil (Rick Slater)
Subject: Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring
Date: 24 Mar 1994 13:44:05 -0500
Reply-To: slater@gandalf.nrlssc.navy.mil (Rick Slater)

Thomas G. McWilliams (tgm@netcom.com) wrote:

: Yes, Ian should have worked within the rules and not used the subterfuge
: of a "straw poll". And Ian's discarding Usenet convention such as the
: overmajority rule is unconscionable. Perhaps we should run our 
: government the same way ... let the New York Times take straw polls and
: change the laws accordingly ...

My own response to this nonsense will be to bar Ian's site from sending
mail to mine.  Or, more correctly stated, my site will reject all mail
from his robot.

                                -- Rick
--

internet: slater@gandalf.nrlssc.navy.mil

------------------------------

From: saw@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Spawn)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: A few Linux Q's
Date: 23 Mar 1994 02:07:25 GMT

Hi!  I am a new user of Linux.  I am running Slackware 1.2.0 w/ X.  I
have figured out a lot of stuff on my own, but these three questions
are bugging me.

1)  Does anyone have a listing of possible background colors for X
that yoou can put into your xinitrc?  Right now it says 'steel blue'
but I don't like it.  I have experimented with loading an image
through xv and maxing it to root, but it hogs up to much RAM.  On the
same note, does anyone have a list of colors for fvwm windows?  Right
now mine are orchid and steel blue.  I know that if I change that hex
(?) code in the beginning of the fvwmrc then it will change the
colors.  But I am lazy and would rather not experiment.  Thanks!

2)  When I am not in X I can hit Alt-Fx to bring up another tty.
Sometimes I do this if I need to change something with root and
experiment with it as a user.  However, how do I do this in X?  Every
time I hit Fx I get control characters at my prompt.  Is there a way
to remote login to my system as root?  Thanks for the help.

3)  This is a big problem, but I think I am missing something obvious.
For some reason, my swap file has to be reset every time I boot up.
It is 30mb and is the only other partition on my 261mb IDE drive.
During install, I made it with mkswap /dev/hda2 'byte size' and turned
it on with swapon /dev/hda2.  However,when I finally got X up and
running ( a few days later) and I tried to maximize a graphic with XV
3.2, the program closed on me.  I was told by someone that this was
happening due to not eough RAM.  But I said "Hey, I have 8mb on the
board and a30mb swap.  What do you mean not enough RAM!"  So I went
into fdisk, and sure enough, there it was.  Then I ran swapon again.
This time, when I went into X and tried to maximize the graphic, it
worked.  So I thought I was done.  However, when I rebooted with a
shutdown -r now and tried to maximize again, it closed on me.  But
when I ran swapon it worked.  Do I have to put swapon in one of my
rc.x files?  Do I have to put it in one of my init files?  Or should I
just not have to reset it all the time?  Thanks again for the help.

/------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Stuart Wexler              |  ****  SNAPPY ONE-LINER HERE  ****  |
| CETS Trainee Consultant    |  ****  INTRIGUING QUOTE HERE  ****  | 
| saw@eniac.seas.upenn.edu   |  ****  WHATEVER IS CUTE HERE  ****  |
|------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Seminars, n.:                                                    |
|       From "semi" and "arse", hence, any half-assed discussion   |
\------------------------------------------------------------------/

------------------------------

From: ig25@fg70.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de (Thomas Koenig)
Crossposted-To: news.groups
Subject: Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring
Date: 24 Mar 1994 18:07:36 GMT

[Followup-To: news.groups]

Thomas G. McWilliams (tgm@netcom.com) wrote in article <tgmCn6HEG.Fzy@netcom.com>:

>Yes, Ian should have worked within the rules and not used the subterfuge
>of a "straw poll".

There ARE no rules for the kind of thing which Ian proposed; we're just
making them up as we go along with this precedent.

Flaming him for not adhering to the group creation guidelines, which
specifically don't apply in this case, is fairly useless, IMHO.

This is a case where traditional Usenet methods are breaking down;
something else needs to be tried.

>And Ian's discarding Usenet convention such as the
>overmajority rule is unconscionable.


>Perhaps we should run our 
>government the same way ... let the New York Times take straw polls and
>change the laws accordingly ...

Usenet is not a democracy; far from it.

>Of course Ian has no more authority or status than the newest Usenet
>greenhorn even though he'd like others to believe otherwise.

Authority... well, anybody has the authority to do what he proposed.
Status is in the eye of the beholder, of course; but he is fairly
well known in the Linux community for the services he has done.
Let's just say I've known him from before this thread, and I respect
his opinions, even if I don't always share them.
--
Thomas Koenig, ig25@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de, ig25@dkauni2.bitnet
The joy of engineering is to find a straight line on a double
logarithmic diagram.

------------------------------

From: kevinl@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au (Kevin Lentin)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Re: Emergency!! **Infinite loop in boot**
Date: 23 Mar 1994 01:54:42 GMT

On Wed, 23 Mar 1994 00:28:33 GMT, Popovisk Steion wrote:
> I tried to patch the .99.14 kernel to get .99.15, a few things
> went wrong, but eventually it said "done."  However, my /vmlinuz was gone
> (null file).  So, I copy vmlinuz.bak back to /vmlinuz.  When I boot
> (off a floppy), it reads the floppy for a sec (normal), tehn it goes
> to the hard drive and says "LILO Loading linux..." and it keeps on saying
> that forever, scrolling down the screen.

After moving in a new kernel, you must rerun lilo to update its record of
where the kernel is.

What you need to do is boot from a boot floppy (not the kind that boots off
your hard drive, the kind that boots entirely from the floppy. Eg the
RESCUE disk from slackware).  Then mount your hard drive, modify the lilo
config so it points to where your vmlinuz ends up and then reconfigure
lilo.


-- 
[==================================================================]
[ Kevin Lentin                   |___/~\__/~\___/~~~~\__/~\__/~\_| ]
[ kevinl@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au  |___/~\/~\_____/~\______/~\/~\__| ]
[ Macintrash: 'Just say NO!'     |___/~\__/~\___/~~~~\____/~~\___| ]
[==================================================================]

------------------------------

From: nelson@crynwr.crynwr.com (Russell Nelson)
Crossposted-To: news.groups
Subject: Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring
Date: 24 Mar 1994 16:33:56 GMT

In article <1994Mar23.023351.18346@cs.cornell.edu> mdw@cs.cornell.edu (Matt Welsh) writes:

   So, what will it be? Are you willing to give up a little bit of freedom 
   in order to increase the quality of c.o.l.* as a whole?

Not even, Matt.  He can still post anything he wants.  It's just that
1) people might not read it because it doesn't have the keywords
they're looking for, and 2) he'll get a piece of mail (that he can
ignore) from the auto-keyword-watcher.

This is a good solution, and I thank Ian for proposing and
implementing it.  I, for one, will be watching for Ethernet, SLIP, and
PLIP keywords.

--
-russ <nelson@crynwr.com>      ftp.msen.com:pub/vendor/crynwr/crynwr.wav
Crynwr Software   | Crynwr Software sells packet driver support | ask4 PGP key
11 Grant St.      | +1 315 268 1925 (9201 FAX)    | Quakers do it in the light
Potsdam, NY 13676 | LPF member - ask me about the harm software patents do.

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: news.groups
From: swhitlat@nmt.edu (Steven Whitlatch)
Subject: Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 1994 02:39:39 GMT


>Ian should go forth with the proposal

        Yep, sounds like the thing to do.
        

        Steve W.


------------------------------

From: mark@snark.itc.gu.edu.au (Mark Hessling)
Subject: Re: Looking for color version of Slackware labels logo
Date: 23 Mar 1994 08:24:56 +1000

sad@tdc1.eng.ysu.edu (Steve DuChene) writes:

>       I am looking for the color (and larger) version of the triangle
>       Linux logo that is on the Slackware labels that are available
>       in postscript format so I can try to colorize the Slackware
>       labels to match. I have seen this before so I know it was 
>       available at one time. Other wise could the person who designed
>       the labels please post a color version of the labels for those
>       of us with color printers. Thanks!

>| sduchene@cis.ysu.edu or  s0017210@cc.ysu.edu  Steven A. DuChene  
>| Youngstown State University  | Computer Science / Math / Mech. Eng.

Can you tell me where the black and white versions are ?

Thanks, Mark
========================================================================
Mark Hessling                         Email: M.Hessling@gu.edu.au
DBA,ITS                               Phone: +617 875 7691
Griffith University                   Fax:   +617 875 5314
Nathan, Brisbane QLD 4111             ***** PDCurses Maintainer *****
Australia                             *** Author of THE and GUROO ***
========================================================================

------------------------------

From: mlord@bnr.ca (Mark Lord)
Crossposted-To: news.groups
Subject: Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring
Date: 24 Mar 1994 19:03:34 GMT

In article <2msc67$9l4@chnews.intel.com> jstump@mstu41.intel.com writes:
>
>If the original posts follow to subject keyword convention, it shouldn't
>affect you one bit. What's the problem? Are you going to modify the
>subject and take out the keywords?

No, the other way around.  Like this followup, I am not going to edit
the Subject: line to insert yet another keyword.  Usenet (and this article)
already has keywords.. on the Keywords: line.  This is the standard.

-- 
mlord@bnr.ca    Mark Lord       BNR Ottawa,Canada       613-763-7482

------------------------------

From: cs@werries.de (Christian Seyb)
Crossposted-To: alt.cd-rom
Subject: Slackware, NetBSD, FreeBSD and more on a single CDROM
Date: 24 Mar 1994 19:16:09 +0100


*** NEW: NOW accepting VISA cards (and currently only VISA). ***

       Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD, GNU, RFC's, X-clients and utilities,
       all on a single CDROM from CDROM Versand Helga Seyb.

*NIX Highlights CDROM Issue Feb 94 for DM 98,--

- The CDROM is in ISO9660 format and every directory has a files.bbs
  file with descriptions for each of the app. 4000 files. There is a
  total of 620MB on this CDROM.

- All three operating systems - Slackware Linux V1.1.1, FreeBSD V1.0.2
  and NetBSD V0.9 - can be installed directly from CDROM.

- A stable LINUX Slackware V1.1.1 complete with XFree86[TM] V2.0 and all
  sources. All kernels from 0.99.0 up to 0.99.14x and a beta kernel
  with ISDN support (1TR6). You find tinyX as well as the g1 german
  application disk. The doc section has >2MB of information on uucp,
  news, scsi, printing, etc.

  In addition to the normal CDROM support (Sound Blaster, SCSI, Mitsumi
  PAS16, Sony CDU-31A), there is support for the Sony 535 CDROM drive.

- NetBSD V0.9 and FreeBSD V1.0.2 are both there including the sources.
  Of course, there is also XFree86 V2.0 and a selection of additional
  utilities for these operation systems.

- The complete GNU sources are on this CDROM as well (gcc 2.5.8,
  emacs 19.22, gmake 3.70, flex 2.4.6, etc). A total of app. 150
  programs.

- X11R5 up to patch 26 and more than 200 X-clients including xplz and the
  german zipcode database. There is no need to copy the zipcode database
  to the hard disk.

- All Internet RFC's up to RFC1577

- TeX Version 3.14

- In addition to the above packages, we included the sources of more than
  500 utilities for Unix.

The cost is DM 98,- ($1 is app. DM 1.70.). We ship the same day as we get
the order.

Our address: CDROM Versand Helga Seyb, Fuchsweg 86, 85598 Baldham, Germany
Phone: +49.8106.302210
Fax: +49.8106.362828, +49.8106.302310, +49.8106.34593
e-mail: cs@werries.de

We accept VISA card (currently only VISA), Eurocheque (Europe) and
Verrechnungsschecks (Germany). Shipping and handling is DM 5,- for
Germany and DM 15,- elsewhere. For Nachnahme (Germany) it is DM 10,-.

------------------------------

From: grif@corsa.ucr.edu (Michael Griffith)
Subject: Re: MEM vs. CPU power??
Date: 24 Mar 1994 17:51:07 GMT

In article <d1coma.764525064@dtek.chalmers.se>,
Robert Feldt <d1coma@dtek.chalmers.se> wrote:
>I'm looking for a PC-system for running Linux and Xfree86, but I don't know 
>on which part of the system to spend the money!
>
>Should I buy more memory or go for a faster CPU? The choice is between a
>DX-33 system with 16MB of memory and a DX/2-66 with 8MB. I've got a feeling
>the faster system will be the best but I heard X need lots of memory
>(swapping ain't that funny!).

You should go for the extra RAM.  The DX2-66 is (at best) 2 times as fast
as the DX33.  RAM is about 1000 times faster than disk for swapping.  If
you run X, you will certainly use more than 8M of memory, so everything
beyond 8M would be subject to a 1000 time slowdown.

I've seen both situations and the machine with more RAM but a slower
clockrate will perform much better.
-- 
                                                Michael A. Griffith
                                                grif@cs.ucr.edu

------------------------------


** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **

The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:

    Internet: Linux-Misc-Request@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU

You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.misc) via:

    Internet: Linux-Misc@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU

Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
    nic.funet.fi				pub/OS/Linux
    tsx-11.mit.edu				pub/linux
    sunsite.unc.edu				pub/Linux

End of Linux-Misc Digest
******************************
