Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #863
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Thu, 24 Mar 94 20:13:14 EST

Linux-Misc Digest #863, Volume #1                Thu, 24 Mar 94 20:13:14 EST

Contents:
  Status of video/disk drivers (Andrew Pickrell)
  Linux drivers for my tape backup (Paul J. Nolan, Dept. of Mech. Eng., University College Galway, Ireland)
  Re: compiler quality (was "Reverse-engineering") (Michael I Bushnell)
  Re: PCI bus cards (graphics and SCSI) which work? (Dirk Hohndel)
  Re: broken crond ? (James Morris)
  Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring (Matt Welsh)
  gcc and shared libs on linux (John Duddy)
  Re: [Q] BBS programs? (Peter Jones)
  Re: PCI bus cards (graphics and SCSI) which work? (Michael L. VanLoon)
  Re: Wine status March 11, 1994 (Bob Bagwill)
  USENET (Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring) (Kari E. Hurtta)
  Re: Wine status March 11, 1994 (Terry Lambert)
  UnZip does not support PKZIP decryption (Michel Anders)
  Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring (Rajappa Iyer)
  Re: Wine status March 11, 1994 (Daniel Garcia)
  Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring (Matt Welsh)
  Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring (Matt Welsh)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: pickrell@engrs.unl.edu (Andrew Pickrell)
Subject: Status of video/disk drivers
Date: 24 Mar 1994 19:40:19 GMT


It is my understanding that drivers for the Adaptec 2742 card are being worked
on.  Does anyone know the status of them and can someone conferm that support
for both scsi channels (the 2742T) are supported?

Also, I saw in one of the faqs that there are drivers for Compaq's AVGA.  Are
there drivers in existance or in the works for the QVision cards?

I would like the status of both before plunging into the Linux world.

Thanks
--
==============================================================================
Andrew Pickrell                  | All opinions expressed are copyrighted
UNL Dept. of Chemical Engineering| material. If you are illegally using them
EMail :pickrell@engrs.unl.edu    | prepare to be sued.  ;)    TEAM-OS/2 !!!


------------------------------

From: 0002103S@bodkin.ucg.ie (Paul J. Nolan, Dept. of Mech. Eng., University College Galway, Ireland)
Subject: Linux drivers for my tape backup
Date: 22 Mar 1994 16:22:16 -0600

Does anyone know if there are any Linux drivers available for my
Colorado Jumbo tape drive and if so where they would be found?

Thanks in advance,

Paul Nolan
Department of Mechanical Engineering
University College Galway
Ireland

P.S. An E-Mail reply to 0002103S@bodkin.ucg.ie would be appreciated.

------------------------------

From: mib@churchy.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Michael I Bushnell)
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: compiler quality (was "Reverse-engineering")
Date: 24 Mar 1994 20:38:59 GMT

In article <1994Mar23.035942.25110@rpp386> jfh@rpp386 (John F. Haugh II) writes:

   In article <1994Mar21.225332.11447@pe1chl.ampr.org> pe1chl@rabo.nl writes:
   >In <1994Mar18.024732.9264@rpp386> jfh@rpp386 (John F. Haugh II) writes:
   >>Sometimes a fix is worse than the problem being fixed.  Yes, the system
   >>has the "wrong" behavior, but it is "wrong" behavior that everyone has
   >>come to know and love.  In the case of <sys/stat.h> it's a bad prototype
   >>that the entire system was compiled with ...
   >
   >That only tells us the compiler is no good.

   Sorry, the problems with updating <sys/stat.h> have nothing to do with
   the quality of the compiler.

No, they have to do with bozoheads that want to minimize their own
work.  Just install the new stat.h.  Since everyone in the known
universe depends on it, but the change doesn't actually force any
recompilation, backdate the stupid file.

Is this really so complicated?

--
+1 617 623 3248 (H)    |   The soul of Jonathan was bound to the soul of David,
+1 617 253 8568 (W)   -+-   and Jonathan loved him as his own soul.
1105 Broadway          |  Then Jonathan made a covenant with David
Somerville, MA 02144   |    because he loved him as his own soul.

------------------------------

From: hohndel@physics.su.oz.au (Dirk Hohndel)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.misc,comp.windows.x.i386unix,comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.386bsd.misc,comp.os.386bsd.questions,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next
Subject: Re: PCI bus cards (graphics and SCSI) which work?
Date: 24 Mar 1994 18:59:51 GMT

jeffrey d evans (evans@rs560.cl.msu.edu) wrote:

:     Matrox 64 bit
:             -been out a while
:             -says supports os/2
:             -display rates?
:             -features?

No support in XFree86[tm]. Not today, and most likely never

:     ATI Graphics Pro turbo (64bit)
:             -just started seeing ads 
:             -good vga support(better than Matrox)
:             -anyone shipping them?
:             -will the mach32 Xfree86 server work?
:             -display rates?
:             -features?

said to be very buggy and far from delivery

:     ATI Graphics ultra pro (32 bit)
:             -been out for a while
:             -slower than all new 64 bit cards

:     Viper
:             -Xfree support yet?
:             -bad vga performance

No XFree86 support anytime soon

You are missing the new Vision[89]64 chips from S3 that are available now
and should be supported by XFree86 rather soon.

        Dirk

--
 _     _           _            _   _     |  The XFree86 Project, Inc.
| | | |_) |/  |_| | | |_| |\ | | | |_ |   |  XFree86@physics.su.oz.au
|_/ | | \ |\  | | |_| | | | \| |_/ |_ |_  |  hohndel@physics.su.oz.au

------------------------------

From: jmorris@mu.apana.org.au (James Morris)
Subject: Re: broken crond ?
Date: 17 Mar 1994 01:28:11 -1000

Jeremy Bettis (jbettis@cse.unl.edu) wrote:

> Yes, getting the new cron should fix it, but this should make the problem go
> away.

> In /etc/rc (i assume) crond is started up, and also the system clock is set
> from the CMOS clock.  Make sure that the clock is set first! before crond is
> started.  What is happining is that crond notices that the time changed and
> tries to catch up by executing all the things which happened between the old
> time and the new time.  So when you set the clock, crond has several years of
> catching up to do. (probably, I assume that your date is years off before the
> clock is set)

Thanks for that !  It worked.                              

JM.      
-- 

James Morris
<jmorris@mu.apana.org.au>

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: news.groups
From: mdw@cs.cornell.edu (Matt Welsh)
Subject: Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 02:33:51 GMT

In article <2mn78d$gav@bmerha64.bnr.ca>, Mark Lord <mlord@bnr.ca> wrote:
>
>In article <2mk21e$3dd@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk> iwj@cam-orl.co.uk writes:
>>As I said during the discussion period, I've been convinced that
>>Subject line tags are more technically feasible than Keywords at the
>>moment (shame on you, newsreader authors).
>
>Sure, let's change the whole way usenet works for the sake of this shmuck.

Look, what Ian is trying to do is HELP make c.o.l.* more accessible and 
more helpful to new users. How many times have you seen someone post, 
``I posted this last week but got no response! Please help!'' The reason 
that the person got no response was because most of the ``old-timers'' who 
could answer the question were unable to even READ it because of the large 
amount of traffic on these groups. Nobody has time to wade through the
garbage there---even with a good killfile it's quite a task, I assure you.

Using a keyword in the subject line would help in the following ways:
        1. It would allow readers to automatically select or reject
           postings based on keyword. For example, I might choose to only
           select postings about NET-2 questions; if there is a keyword
           corresponding to NET-2 this is easily done. 

        2. Because of the above selection mechanism, we wouldn't need to
           create multiple newsgroups for these varied topics.

        3. Random garbage such as the ``GOD SPEAKS ON LINUX'' thread could
           be filtered out---either by Ian's mail to the individual making
           the post, or at the newsreader level, through use of a killfile.

        4. Because readers will be able to filter posts by keyword, they
           can concentrate on only those posts that interest them. THEREFORE,
           it will be easier for questions to be filtered from the junk,
           and therefore, those thousands of newbies who aren't being helped
           by c.o.l.* WILL be helped.

It sounds like too many people are forgetting why we have c.o.l.* (especially
.help) in the first place---newsgroups to provide help and support for Linux.
I'm more than willing to sacrifice the complete OPENNESS of these newsgroups
in order to drastically increase the QUALITY of them. If you want to post
garbage, there are several thousand other newsgroups---including c.o.l.misc---
to post it to. 

Ian isn't talking about moderating the group---he's talking about enforcing
a subject line convention that will make the groups MUCH easier to read and
to reply to. In fact, Ian's system WON'T EVEN BLOCK postings that 
DON'T follow the convention. The most that it will do is send friendly
e-mail to someone who doesn't follow the convention and explain to them
that they should use it in the future. End of story. 

This subject line convention is just that---a convention. And this convention
will make c.o.l.* more readable to those who can respond to the many questions
on these newsgroups. As it is now, c.o.l.* is almost completely ineffective.
Very few people get help from c.o.l.h; it is just as bad as when comp.os.linux
was the only newsgroup.

So, what will it be? Are you willing to give up a little bit of freedom 
in order to increase the quality of c.o.l.* as a whole? Or are you going
to be adamant, and demand that the newsgroups remain completely unmonitored, 
although that completely nullifies the potential usefulness of the group? 
Is it worth the tradeoff to simply use an approved keyword in your subject
line? Is it so much to ask? 

Just imagine the number of people who could be helped by this. Imagine 
how many more newcomers could learn to use and appreciate Linux if they
were able to get a helping hand from the newsgroups. Those newsgroups
are the official Linux support hotline. Right now they look like a huge
bin of disorganized papers with no continuity and no way for people to
effectively read and reply to problems. I just don't understand why people
are so opposed to helping out new users. 

mdw

------------------------------

From: jduddy@spock (John Duddy)
Subject: gcc and shared libs on linux
Date: 23 Mar 1994 23:33:04 GMT

Has anybody been able to build anything using the -fpic flag on gcc
to generate shared objects? I'm trying to build motif and not having
much luck with the shared libraries.......

jduddy@sd.inri.com

------------------------------

From: thanatos@drealm.drealm.org (Peter Jones)
Subject: Re: [Q] BBS programs?
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 18:32:16 +0000

On Sun, 20 Mar 94 16:05:00 -0400, Nick Zentena (nick.zentena@canrem.com) wrote (in article <60.8219.5780.0N1990B3@canrem.com>):


>         Does anybody know if any BBS programs exist for Linux? If so were?
>         Email is likely best.
>         Thanks
>         Nick
[Sig deleted]

Yes!  You can download the PERL version of the drealm conferencing system
from ftp.cix.ufl.edu:/pub/perl/scripts/bbs/drealm

The current version is 0.05.  This is the last PERL version.  The next
version will be in ANSI C.

It was written for SVR4.2, but we're told it works with a few tweaks on
Linux.  We are planning to begin maintaining a Linux version in the near
future (otherwise I wouldn't be here... :-) ).

If you want to log on and see what our BBS looks like (as a guide to what
you can do with it), please do!

-- Peter

------------------------------

From: michaelv@iastate.edu (Michael L. VanLoon)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.misc,comp.windows.x.i386unix,comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.386bsd.misc,comp.os.386bsd.questions,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next
Subject: Re: PCI bus cards (graphics and SCSI) which work?
Date: 24 Mar 94 19:38:48 GMT

In <2mslqq$1vl8@rs560.cl.msu.edu> evans@rs560.cl.msu.edu (jeffrey d evans) writes:


>  I will be in the position to recomend a Pentium machine to purchase and had a
>few questions about the few PCI cards out there.
>  
>  What high performance graphics cards are there for the PCI local bus that are
>out and have decent support for them.  I want to keep all my options open as 
>far as operating systems go(OS/2, Linux(Xfree86), NeXtStep, NetBSD...).  I also
>want to atleast a 1280x1024 256 colors 72hz noninterlaced top resolution and 
>display rate(I will consider others though). 

>  here's the info I have so far :

I don't know if anyone has used a true PCI bus card with XFree86 yet,
but the chances are that it has been attempted.

>    Matrox 64 bit

Matrox is not supported in XFree86, and rumors are that it never will
be (unless you write all the drivers).  I don't think Matrox wants
their driver code public.

>    ATI Graphics Pro turbo (64bit)

I don't know of anyone who has this.  It might work with XFree86
Mach32, but then again it might now.  Who knows? :-)

>    ATI Graphics ultra pro (32 bit)

This seems to be a very popular card and has good XFree86 support.

>            -slower than all new 64 bit cards

        Yes, but still a very fast card

>    Viper

Do NOT buy ANY Diamond products!  They are not and will never be
supported by XFree86 (although a few adventerous souls have gotten
them to limp along at times).  Diamond will not allow their drivers to
be public and doesn't care at all that this may cost them a sale
because you run a free "unix".  They are quite indifferent to the
pleas of free "unix" users.

>  As for the SCSI PCI cards, I'm looking for Fast SCSI2 support for OS/2, 
>Linux(Xfree86), NeXtStep, NetBSD(...).  I've seen many manufacturers advertising
>PCI bus SCSI cards, but they don't say who makes them or what operating systems
>they support.

I don't know of anyone who's tried the PCI bus version yet, but all
the other bus versions work: I recommend BusLogic.  Their PCI card is
the bt946c.  I run an EISA bus bt747s and it's a great card.

-- 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
 Michael L. VanLoon                 Iowa State University Computation Center
    michaelv@iastate.edu                    Project Vincent Systems Staff
  Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free Un*x for PC/Mac/Amiga/etc.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

------------------------------

From: bagwill@sst.ncsl.nist.gov (Bob Bagwill)
Subject: Re: Wine status March 11, 1994
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 16:01:55 GMT

Charles B. Robey (chuckr@glue.umd.edu) wrote:
: If they wanted it to be the real standard, they'd have made it public.

They did, sort of.  It's IEEE P1295, in the IEEE editing phase of
production.  Plus, OSF is giving parts of Motif to X/Open, I believe.

: What about fvwm, or FWF, or any of the other APIs.

I thought fvwm was an X window manager, not a GUI toolkit.

--
Bob Bagwill
rbagwill@nist.gov

------------------------------

From: hurtta@dionysos.fmi.fi (Kari E. Hurtta)
Crossposted-To: news.groups
Subject: USENET (Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring)
Date: 24 Mar 1994 09:11:05 GMT

mdw@cs.cornell.edu (Matt Welsh) writes:
;>The ones
;>I receive from alt.* linux groups already (another net.facist) are bad enough,

;All right, so you define anyone who tries to exert pressure on USENET as
;a net.fascist. Wake up, Mark. USENET isn't a democracy. 

Yes. USENET is anarchy.
--
- Kari E. Hurtta                             /  Eldmd on monimutkaista
  Kari.Hurtta@Fmi.FI                         puh. (90) 1929 658

------------------------------

From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert)
Crossposted-To: comp.windows.x.i386unix,comp.os.386bsd.apps
Subject: Re: Wine status March 11, 1994
Date: 24 Mar 1994 22:15:35 GMT

In article <1994Mar22.170009.5196@kf8nh.wariat.org> bsa@kf8nh.wariat.org (Brandon S. Allbery) writes:
>Where have you been the past few months?  OSF made the Motif specs public as
>part of the COSE CDE project.

Where do I FTP them from?  uiuinix.ui.org is gone...

Also, when is the "COSE CDE usable specification project" scheduled for
completion?  8-).


                                        Terry Lambert
                                        terry@cs.weber.edu
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

------------------------------

From: michela@sci.kun.nl (Michel Anders)
Subject: UnZip does not support PKZIP decryption
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 1994 17:27:16 GMT


In my binary of Unzip 5.0p1 decryption via the -s switch of a PKZIP file is
not supported (Export restrictions?). So can anyone point me to src/binary
of UnZip that DOES support en/decryption. I'd hate to start up MSDOS just
to decrypt a zipfile... 

Thanks, Michel.


------------------------------

Crossposted-To: news.groups
From: rsi@netcom.com (Rajappa Iyer)
Subject: Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 1994 22:56:23 GMT

Matt Welsh <mdw@cs.cornell.edu> wrote:
>In article <rsiCn4uCu.8x7@netcom.com> rsi@netcom.com (Rajappa Iyer) writes:
>I just don't understand why people would rather see c.o.l.* go to waste
>than agree on such a simple system that would greatly increase effectiveness.
>Please, answer me that. Do you really abhor the idea of having to type a
>keyword on your subject line? I make very few original postings to c.o.l.*; 
>most of them are followups. Therefore, most of the time, I'd never have 
>to worry about the subject-line convention as long as it was already being 
>followed in the thread at hand.

Let us just step back a little and look at this problem in
perspective. c.o.l.* is just one heirarchy in Usenet. And surprising
as it may seem to you, people do read and contribute to more than one
group. If I have to remember a different set of rules for posting on
c.o.l.* as opposed to, say, alt.california, it is entire conceivable
that I might forget the keyword requirement. As a result I have to
"endure" mail from Ian. And I think I am safe in saying that I am not
the only person likely to make these mistakes.

Secondly, as has been noted in other groups when such hacks were
proposed, not everybody has a newsreader which allows setting
keywords. I used to post from an NCR site earlier and the news server
gateway would simply reject posts with (for example) the distribution
field set. That was a Unix machine too.

Thirdly, some people *pay* for incoming mail and I don't think your
a clueless newbie should pay for your busy lifestyle.

Make no mistake about it. What Ian is proposing is a definite change
in the way Usenet works. When I make posts to a newsgroup, I do not
expect an unsolicited piece of mail because I could not or did not set
some of the header fields. Someone else pointed out that an attempt to
post to news.answers generates such mail... but there is a difference
between *.answers groups which are mainly read-only for the
overwhelming majority and c.o.l.* groups which are discussion
oriented.

In summary, I think Ian and others have no business changing the rules
arbitrarily. If you feel strongly enough about it, you should at the
very least have a formal RFD/CFV. Straw polls are not to be taken
seriously enough to be considered a `mandate'--- for the very simple
reason that many don't bother to vote in such polls. I know I didn't
even though I had strong opinions.
-- 
<rsi@netcom.com> a.k.a. Rajappa Iyer.  La Jolla, CA.
        I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.

------------------------------

From: kender@esu.edu (Daniel Garcia)
Crossposted-To: comp.windows.x.i386unix,comp.os.386bsd.apps
Subject: Re: Wine status March 11, 1994
Date: 24 Mar 1994 14:51:12 -0500
Reply-To: kender@esu.edu

Slaving away in a dark room, chuckr@glue.umd.edu (Charles B. Robey) produced:
>Warner Losh (imp@boulder.parcplace.com) wrote:
>
>Oh, for pete's sake.  Motif is just one standard among many.  It's not
>the anything.  If they wanted it to be the real standard, they'd have
>made it public.  What about fvwm, or FWF, or any of the other

Umm - pardon me - but fvwm is a __WINDOW_MANAGER__ _not_ an API!

>APIs.  What about non-X?  That really sounds terribly one-sided.
>Motif is great, but not THE standard.

Under Un*x, motif _is_ the standard, at least under commercial unix's.
Almost all (if not all) commercial unix's that sell X packages include
motif in them.  And, it's possible to get motif for under $200 for
the freeware unixes as well, and people are working on freeware
implimentations of the Motif API.

Also - non-unix software DOES use motif.  Geo-work's GUI is loosely
based on the motif GUI spec - it's a shame that geo-works, which
IMHO was MUCH better than ms-windows ever was (or ever will be?) was
swamped out by ms-windows.

D

-- 
Ethernet is|     Daniel Garcia - ATP Group - Fibre Channel    |NetSurfingFibre
for Sissies|   Lawrence Livermore Nat'l Labs - Livermore, CA  |RunningLightRid
disclaimer.| dgarcia@cohl.llnl.gov <=-email-=> kender@esu.edu |ingExplorer...
Fibre Channel - Unix - TCP/IP - Music - MIDI - Biking - Networking - Reading

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: news.groups
From: mdw@cs.cornell.edu (Matt Welsh)
Subject: Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 1994 23:06:18 GMT

In article <2mso66$kvn@bmerha64.bnr.ca> mlord@bnr.ca (Mark Lord) writes:
>In article <2msc67$9l4@chnews.intel.com> jstump@mstu41.intel.com writes:
>>
>>If the original posts follow to subject keyword convention, it shouldn't
>>affect you one bit. What's the problem? Are you going to modify the
>>subject and take out the keywords?
>
>No, the other way around.  Like this followup, I am not going to edit
>the Subject: line to insert yet another keyword.  Usenet (and this article)
>already has keywords.. on the Keywords: line.  This is the standard.

For your information, not everyone can edit their headers to add 
keywords. If you'd been following the thread, you'd know that this
was why a subject-line convention was proposed.

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: news.groups
From: mdw@cs.cornell.edu (Matt Welsh)
Subject: Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 1994 23:09:33 GMT

In article <2mrrjt$5p7@vishnu.jussieu.fr> card@masi.ibp.fr (Remy CARD) writes:
>       It's also a waste of money for some people.  Remember that some
>people pay for receiving their mails (and it may be very expensive for
>some) and sending unsollicited mail to them is not a good idea IMO.

True, but possibly irrelevant. Those same people are theoretically 
paying to post USENET articles, and therefore should be willing to "do 
their part" to maintain the convention. They're already costing many,
many people much more money to propagate the article.

------------------------------


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