Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #866
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Fri, 25 Mar 94 09:14:35 EST

Linux-Misc Digest #866, Volume #1                Fri, 25 Mar 94 09:14:35 EST

Contents:
  Re: Sparc vs. 486/Pentium [WAS:Re: Mail Order Linux Workstation Vendors] (Rick Kelly)
  Xfree and Mouse??? (Jerald B Brown)
  Re: Impressions: FreeBSD vs Linux (Steve Nunez)
  Re: STRAW POLL (R.W.F. van der &)
  Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring (Thomas Koenig)
  Re: Impressions: FreeBSD vs Linux (Warner Losh)
  Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring (Matt Welsh)
  *** PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE POSTING *** (misc-2.07) (Ian Jackson)
  Re: subject lines -- Linux groups automonitoring (Kevin Lentin)
  Re: Stupid... Re: NEW PRODUCT : 3 Linux CD's and a T-Shirt for $29. (tim werner)
  Re: Scsi host time outs -- help (Eric Youngdale)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
From: rmk@rmkhome.com (Rick Kelly)
Subject: Re: Sparc vs. 486/Pentium [WAS:Re: Mail Order Linux Workstation Vendors]
Reply-To: rmk@rmkhome.com (Rick Kelly)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 1994 02:13:19 GMT

Ron Smits (ron@draconia.hacktic.nl) wrote:
: Rick Kelly (rmk@rmkhome.com) wrote:
: : Evan Leibovitch (evan@telly.on.ca) wrote:
: : : In article <9403140708.01@rmkhome.com> rmk@rmkhome.com (Rick Kelly) writes:

: : : >We have 450 to 500 people on site.
: : : >We are running INN with 3000+ newsgroups.  Feed is by NNTP.  We also feed
: : : >some news out by NNTP to one of our European offices, with more to come.
: : : >Mail also goes through this system.
: : : >There are often 20 users connected to the system with xrn/nntp, and two
: : : >other systems running nnmaster point at this machine.

: : : >It is a robust, reliable system that chugs along 7 days a week, 24 hours
: : : >a day.

: : : >I don't feel that Intel PC hardware would be reliable enough to do the
: : : >job in this case.

: : : Upon what is this conclusion based?

: : The network of SCO, Netware and SVR4 systems that I work with every day.

: : I see these systems slow to a crawl with loads that don't even phase a
: : Sun ELC.  The Intel boxes are all 486DX/33 or 486DX2/66.  I have 3 ALR
: : dual processor boxes that are running SCO ODT 3.0 and MPX.  They are
: : strong machines with 36 megs of memory in each, but since SCO treats them
: : as ISA machines they actually lose some performance.

: Although I do not want to make a commercial for my own company. It would
: suggest looking at the NCR 3000 line running SVR4. It's solid, it's robust
: and stable. One of our midrange like machines would happily take your load
: without problems.


I will not say a word about the NCR 3450.

But I would shoot it.


-- 

Rick Kelly  rmk@rmkhome.com  rmk@bedford.progress.com

------------------------------

From: brownjb@fiu.edu (Jerald B Brown)
Subject: Xfree and Mouse???
Date: 25 Mar 1994 06:48:34 GMT

Hi to all
 
If this is a faq, please direct me to it.
 
I recently installed Linux on my 486/66 240hd 8meg.
It took me a while but I finaly got XFree started. 
However, the mouse did not work.  I got out of it 
and tried figuring out why.
When I tried to start X again, it said server is 
busy, why did that happen??????
 
 
 
I then rebooted the system and logged back in, however
now when I try starting x (startx), it seems to start
but all off a sudden it comes back saying:
 
Fatal server error:
 
Cannot open mouse (device or resource busy)
 
xinit:  No such file or directory (errno 2):  unexpected signal 13
 
 
I tried loading the different mouse configuration but 
nothing.
 
What do you think I did wrong?????
 
 
Thanks for the help 
 
Javier


--
                77     77    77     77
                77    77 77   77   77
                77   77   77   77 77
           77   77  777777777   77
           77   77  77     77   77
            7777    77     77   77

                       At
               brownjb@solix.fiu.edu
              26591572r@servax.fiu.edu

------------------------------

From: skn@engr.ucf.edu (Steve Nunez)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.386bsd.misc
Subject: Re: Impressions: FreeBSD vs Linux
Date: 23 Mar 1994 15:28:12 GMT

In article <Cn1yJz.LHI@hippo.ru.ac.za>, Geoff Rehmet <csgr@cs.ru.ac.za> wrote:
>In my opinion, one of the big advantages of FreeBSD (and NetBSD) is the
>availability of a complete (controlled) source tree for the operating
>system.  (A tree that can be found in one place, and which can be
>installed easily.)  All that needs to be done to install new stuff is
>a "make world".  (As far as I can gather there is no complete
>maintained source tree for Linux.)

Isn't the tamu distribution supposed to be like this? A single source
tree with a "make world"?? 

dave, are you listening?

        - Steve Nunez




------------------------------

Subject: Re: STRAW POLL
From: plank@phys.uva.nl (R.W.F. van der &)
Date: 25 Mar 1994 09:52:34 GMT

The stream about Ian's intention seems to divide the community in
roughly two parts: one that says that Ian shouldn't claim authority
based on his 'STRAW POLL' and one that says that Ian doesn't need it:
he could just go on and do it without consent from the mayority.

It seems to me that there is a simple way out:

Let's hold an 'OFFICIAL' vote (i.e. according to the Usenet's guidelines
for group creation/moderation); if the STRAW poll has any predicative
value then the official vote will surely give Ian a go-ahead:
Then we are in the situation that those who claim that Ian is making
the group a 'semi-moderated group' have no grounds on which to attack
his actions as they procedures for making it a (semi-)moderated group
have been followed.

Roel van der Plank. plank@phys.uva.nl




------------------------------

From: ig25@fg70.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de (Thomas Koenig)
Crossposted-To: news.groups
Subject: Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring
Date: 25 Mar 1994 00:16:06 GMT

Rajappa Iyer (rsi@netcom.com) wrote in article <rsiCn6yE0.qq@netcom.com>:

>Let us just step back a little and look at this problem in
>perspective. c.o.l.* is just one heirarchy in Usenet. And surprising
>as it may seem to you, people do read and contribute to more than one
>group. If I have to remember a different set of rules for posting on
>c.o.l.* as opposed to, say, alt.california, it is entire conceivable
>that I might forget the keyword requirement.

A quick glance at the newsgroup, every time before you post, will 
very probably be enough.  You won't have to think for long before
remembering, I believe ;-)

Don't forget, the keywords should go to the beginning of the Subject
line, where they are hardest to miss.

>When I make posts to a newsgroup, I do not
>expect an unsolicited piece of mail because I could not or did not set
>some of the header fields.

I would agree if the Keywords field was to be used, but everybody
can set their Subject line without much trouble.
--
Thomas Koenig, ig25@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de, ig25@dkauni2.bitnet
The joy of engineering is to find a straight line on a double
logarithmic diagram.

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.386bsd.misc
From: imp@boulder.parcplace.com (Warner Losh)
Subject: Re: Impressions: FreeBSD vs Linux
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 1994 21:20:07 GMT

In article <HJSTEIN.94Mar24111940@sunset.huji.ac.il>
hjstein@sunset.huji.ac.il (Harvey J. Stein) writes: 
>I believe that the TAMU distribution allows this.

TAMU isn't exactly cutting edge, and they have a rather small system.
Not that TAMU isn't good, it just doesn't allow the same sorts of
things that FreeBSD allows (eg, grab new sources via sup, and type
make to update to the very latest).

>   Also, the many different distributions on Linux is confusing and adds
>   to the perception that it isn't quite there yet in terms of the
>   integration part of the project.  FreeBSD has one place to get the
>   sources for the entire system, while I have to grab sources from
>   hither and yon for Linux.  I can't grab n tar balls of source from
>   somewhere and expect one make command to compile and install the
>   system.
>
>Maybe when Linux development becomes as slow as FreeBSD development,
>with as few people working on it, then Linux will only be on one
>server too.

This is pure flame bate.  It is still a point in FreeBSD's favor.  The
development is anything bug "slow."  The single point of contact for
the core system makes FreeBSD look better due to the high level of
integration that has gone into it (and NetBSD).  I do understand how
Linux got to the point that it is at now.  I'm merely saying that if
there was some way to grab, say, the sources to the latest slackware
release by sup, type make and have a new system, then this would stop
being a point in FreeBSD's favor.

Like I've said before, it makes the Linux distributions look just
tossed together when it comes to source.  They have improved quite a
bit over the last year (when they merely look just tossed together).

Finally, let me reiterate what I've said before:  This isn't that big
a deal.  Both systems have their plusses and minuses.  I, at this point
in time, happen to prefer FreeBSD, but that doesn't make it better or
worse than Linux.  If you want to know which one is better for you,
run both and chose the one you like better.  They are about the same
with difference areas where they shine.

Warner
-- 
Warner Losh             imp@boulder.parcplace.COM       ParcPlace Boulder
"... but I can't promote you to "Prima Donna" unless you demonstrate a few
 more serious personality disorders"

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: news.groups
From: mdw@cs.cornell.edu (Matt Welsh)
Subject: Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 1994 00:48:41 GMT

In article <rsiCn6yE0.qq@netcom.com> rsi@netcom.com (Rajappa Iyer) writes:
>Let us just step back a little and look at this problem in
>perspective. c.o.l.* is just one heirarchy in Usenet. And surprising
>as it may seem to you, people do read and contribute to more than one
>group. If I have to remember a different set of rules for posting on
>c.o.l.* as opposed to, say, alt.california, it is entire conceivable
>that I might forget the keyword requirement. 

Perhaps. I don't think that people have problems with multiple 
"rules". Many specialized groups have their own "rules" of this
nature; almost all moderated groups do as well.

>Secondly, as has been noted in other groups when such hacks were
>proposed, not everybody has a newsreader which allows setting
>keywords. I used to post from an NCR site earlier and the news server
>gateway would simply reject posts with (for example) the distribution
>field set. That was a Unix machine too.

That's why we're talking about adding keywords on the subject line, 
which virtually everyone has the ability to modify.

>Thirdly, some people *pay* for incoming mail and I don't think your
>a clueless newbie should pay for your busy lifestyle.

Sorry, this sentence didn't parse. :) But I get the idea.
Theoretically, anyone posting to USENET should expect to get 
mail for it, in the form of a response. Also, people posting to
USENET are costing the rest of the world "hundreds, if not thousands"
of dollars to propagate the article. Why shouldn't we expect them 
to do something simple like add keywords to the subject line to help
the whole system run more smoothly.

So far, I haven't seen any arguments about the proposal that aren't
either seated in technical considerations or Ian's "right" to do it. 
I claim that the benefit of the convention far outweighs the technical 
by-products that can result from improper use. I'm also claiming that
a "real" CFV would secure Ian's "right" to do this, if you wanted to
treat this as an actual "moderation" scheme, which it isn't. So, I haven't
seen any reasons why this convention, if adopted, wouldn't help the 
newsgroups perform their function more effectively.

>Make no mistake about it. What Ian is proposing is a definite change
>in the way Usenet works. When I make posts to a newsgroup, I do not
>expect an unsolicited piece of mail because I could not or did not set
>some of the header fields. 

In the same way that you "solicit" mail by posting to one of the *.test
groups, you "solicit" mail by not using proper keywords in your subject
line. It's only unsolicited if you are either unaware of the mechanism
or someone implemented it without consulting the overall readership.

BTW, using something "special" like keywords never stopped anyone from
figuring out how to post to linux-activists. There, the mechanism is
even more complex: adding an X-Mn-Whatever: line to the header, or to
the top of the body. It's just a basic requirement for posting to
that mailing list. And if you screw up, and forget to include the
proper X-Mn line, you get mail back from the server. 

------------------------------

From: ijackson@nyx.cs.du.edu (Ian Jackson)
Subject: *** PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE POSTING *** (misc-2.07)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 1994 11:03:01 GMT

Please do not post questions to comp.os.linux.misc - read on for details of
which groups you should read and post to.

Please do not crosspost anything between different groups of the comp.os.linux
hierarchy.  See Matt Welsh's introduction to the hierarchy, posted weekly.

If you have a question about Linux you should get and read the Linux Frequently
Asked Questions with Answers list from sunsite.unc.edu, in /pub/Linux/docs, or
from another Linux FTP site.  It is also posted periodically to c.o.l.announce.

In particular, read the question `You still haven't answered my question!'
The FAQ will refer you to the Linux HOWTOs (more detailed descriptions of
particular topics) found in the HOWTO directory in the same place.

Then you should consider posting to comp.os.linux.help - not
comp.os.linux.misc.

Note that X Windows related questions should go to comp.windows.x.i386unix, and
that non-Linux-specific Unix questions should go to comp.unix.questions.
Please read the FAQs for these groups before posting - look on rtfm.mit.edu in
/pub/usenet/news.answers/Intel-Unix-X-faq and .../unix-faq.

Only if you have a posting that is not more appropriate for one of the other
Linux groups - ie it is not a question, not about the future development of
Linux, not an announcement or bug report and not about system administration -
should you post to comp.os.linux.misc.


Comments on this posting are welcomed - please email me !
--
Ian Jackson  <ijackson@nyx.cs.du.edu>  (urgent email: iwj10@phx.cam.ac.uk)
2 Lexington Close, Cambridge, CB4 3LS, England;  phone: +44 223 64238

------------------------------

From: kevinl@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au (Kevin Lentin)
Crossposted-To: news.groups
Subject: Re: subject lines -- Linux groups automonitoring
Date: 25 Mar 1994 00:53:57 GMT

On 24 Mar 1994 15:00:41 GMT, Jim Jewett wrote:

> Why can't they control the subject?

> If the question was 

> Subject: PLEASE HELP ME!!!

> can't they edit it to:

> Subject: [LILO] Re: PLEASE HELP ME!!!

Yes, and get flamed for doing it. I hate it when subjects change. I hate it
when peeople change the case of subjects. I hate it when stupid newsreaders
truncate subject lines.

> This will 
> (a) avoid the dreaded email
> (b) set a good example
> (c) make the answer useful to other people
> (d) possibly catch the eye of the appropriate HOWTO maintainter,
>       so that the next version of the docs can include the
>       answer, if it is an improvement.
(e) Not deter people form posting HELP ME messages with meaningless
subjects.
(f) break certain threading schemes!


-- 
[==================================================================]
[ Kevin Lentin                   |___/~\__/~\___/~~~~\__/~\__/~\_| ]
[ kevinl@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au  |___/~\/~\_____/~\______/~\/~\__| ]
[ Macintrash: 'Just say NO!'     |___/~\__/~\___/~~~~\____/~~\___| ]
[==================================================================]

------------------------------

From: thx1139@knuth.cba.csuohio.edu (tim werner)
Subject: Re: Stupid... Re: NEW PRODUCT : 3 Linux CD's and a T-Shirt for $29.
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 1994 12:58:00 GMT

In article <1994Mar24.141626.16874@sue.cc.uregina.ca> biegler@aristotle.cs.uregina.ca (Mark Biegler) writes:
>
>With regard to these Linux CD's, what kind of system do they have for
>handling requests!?!  It certainly isn't working.  Here's what's happened
>with me:
>
>I sent away for the 3 Linux CD's within half-an-hour of seeing the message.
>About 3 or 4 days later, I got the reply:
>
>>Your reference number is XXXX (deleted)
>>
>>Thank you for ordering our special 3 CD set
>>for Linux! If you have any questions regarding
>>your order, please E-MAIL christina@jana.com or
>>for technical questions, E-MAIL support@jana.com

I never got any reply.  I sent in an order on Mar 16.

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.admin,comp.os.linux.development
From: eric@tantalus.nrl.navy.mil (Eric Youngdale)
Subject: Re: Scsi host time outs -- help
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 1994 16:01:14 GMT

Sorry about the crosspost, but I need to reach a wide audience with this.

In article <2mmvem$74s@panix.com> dcv@panix.com (Dimitri Vlahakis) writes:
>
>I keep getting error messages while running linux on my system, if I leave it
>on for over an hour or so.  Basically they come randomly, and the message is
>scsi host 0 time out, and I can no longer access my scsi hard drives, or
>the partitions they contain.  The drives work fine until then.  This problem
>has happened to me with both linux 99pl13 and with 1.0 as well.

        I have a patch that one person is reporting success with.  I am posting
it to see if it helps anyone else (this is the same patch that was posted to
the SCSI channel a day or two ago).  This patch is only for the 1542 driver,
although the wd7000 driver is similar enough that the patch could be used there
as well - don't know about any of the others.

        From what I can tell, this patch will help in cases where you have
multiple devices (or multiple drives) that are being used simultanously.
Usually the problem is most severe with machines that have more than one disk
drive since you tend to send a lot more commands to a disk than to a tape drive
or cdrom - expiring news on a 2-disk system can be a pretty good way of
triggering this.  Anyway, there was a race condition in the code where we send
commands to the device that this patch corrects, and as I mentioned before,
there is someone with a 1542C that no longer gets timeouts with these patches
installed.

        Although I do not expect any problems, I would like people to try this,
because I want to make sure that there are no bad side effects.  This patch
will be incorporated into 1.0 if no one reports any problems.

-Eric

begin 644 aha1542.diff
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`
end


-- 
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep.  But I have promises to keep,
And lines to code before I sleep, And lines to code before I sleep."

------------------------------


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