Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #868
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Fri, 25 Mar 94 15:13:17 EST

Linux-Misc Digest #868, Volume #1                Fri, 25 Mar 94 15:13:17 EST

Contents:
  Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring (Pete Berger)
  Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring (David Lesher)
  Re: appointment/telephone directory type progs for linux? (Sergio Fanchiotti)
  Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring (David Holland)
  MS Busmouse/Gateway ANSWER! (Pete Berger)
  [Xfree, clocksetting]  Diamond PCI card (Jon Peatfield)
  Re: xtop? (Chris Newton CSD)
  Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring (Rick Slater)
  xtop? (Johannes Rest)
  Re: Mouse trouble (Johan Myreen)
  Re: NEW PRODUCT : 3 Linux (Rick Emerson)
  Re: NEW PRODUCT : 3 Linux (Rick Emerson)
  Re: NEW PRODUCT : 3 Linux (Rick Emerson)
  Re: NEW PRODUCT : 3 Linux (Rick Emerson)
  Speed of Linux vs. that if ISC 3.2 ? (Andrei Yakovlev)
  STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux (Rick Emerson)
  c.o.l.x and automatic mod (Rick Emerson)
  Where is Wine? (Joseph W. Vigneau)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: peterb@foxholly.lm.com (Pete Berger)
Crossposted-To: news.groups
Subject: Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring
Date: 25 Mar 1994 10:59:04 -0500

Junk mail is junk mail is junk mail.  I, personally, will react to 
receiving junk mail from Ian in exactly the same way I would react to 
getting junk mail from a business sending out unsolicited advertising.


I encourage everyone else who receives Ian's junk mail to do the same.

Peter Berger


------------------------------

Crossposted-To: news.groups
From: wb8foz@netcom.com (David Lesher)
Subject: Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring
Reply-To: wb8foz@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu (David Lesher)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 1994 16:02:55 GMT

>>already has keywords.. on the Keywords: line.  This is the standard.

>For your information, not everyone can edit their headers to add 
>keywords. If you'd been following the thread, you'd know that this
>was why a subject-line convention was proposed.

Will the present proposal look at BOTH keywords & Subject?

-- 
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close...........(v)301 56 LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close)....kibo# 777............pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead..............vr....................20915-1433

------------------------------

From: fanchiot@dxcern.cern.ch (Sergio Fanchiotti)
Subject: Re: appointment/telephone directory type progs for linux?
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 1994 12:48:54 GMT

In <zxmgv07.764597475@studserv.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de> zxmgv07@studserv.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de (Michael Will) writes:

>there is reminder - kind of a calendar-program which reminds you of
>the dates to keep and can print them too - pure ascii.

>On X I know only xpostit - it is like sticking papers anywhere on the
>screen, but it is rather for notes and might not be what you need...

>Cheers, Michael Will

Ok, if you are willing to install the Tcl/Tk libraries+utils (and have
them dynamicaly linked to save looooooots of space) I can recommend 
 ical v1.83 As a calendar appointment thing to run under X or as a 
reminder at login time....

Very nice. Actually the big payoff is when one uses many Tk things like
tkpostit, tkman, tkispell...

        Saludos,
                ...Sergio

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: news.groups
Subject: Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring
From: dholland@husc7.harvard.edu (David Holland)
Date: 25 Mar 94 01:11:08


nelson@crynwr.crynwr.com's message of 24 Mar 1994 16:33:56 GMT said:

 > This is a good solution, and I thank Ian for proposing and
 > implementing it.  I, for one, will be watching for Ethernet, SLIP, and
 > PLIP keywords.

Why not just propose an additional group, comp.os.linux.help.moderated, 
with either a live moderator (if anybody will volunteer) or even a
program as described. Anyone who is afraid of the moderator censoring
their posts can post to the unmoderated group. 

I think a lot of stuff spills over into the other groups because
col.help is overloaded; fixing that might make it unnecessary to
tinker with the rest.

Another thing that might be helpful is a gopher or WWW site containing
the answers to common questions and solutions to common problems. It's
much easier to get help from a well-indexed gopher than by posting to
netnews, or even searching a FAQ. Since not everybody has internet
access, ideally there would be a mail server as well...

(And no, I'm not volunteering to set it up, thought I'd be happy to
contribute to it; I don't have the time...)

--
   - David A. Holland          | "The right to be heard does not automatically
     dholland@husc.harvard.edu |  include the right to be taken seriously."

------------------------------

From: peterb@foxholly.lm.com (Pete Berger)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: MS Busmouse/Gateway ANSWER!
Date: 25 Mar 1994 11:44:14 -0500

This message is crossposted to .help and .misc because I have seen 
questions regarding this problem on both newsgroups, and I no longer have 
the addresses of the original posters.

If you have a Microsoft Busmouse and a Gateway 2000 computer, compiling 
the kernel (as of 0.99pl15) with MS Busmouse support does NOT work, 
regardless of the Interrupt you use.

The solution:  Compile the kernel WITHOUT MS Busmouse support, and WITH 
PS/2 mouse support.  Link /dev/mouse to bmousps2.  Congratulations, your 
MS Busmouse works.

Before anyone asks me:  No, I don't know why.  But it works.

[This was tested with a Microsoft Busmouse and a Gateway 2000 4SX/33].

I have already forwarded this information to the maintainer of the MS 
Busmouse HOWTO, I just wanted to help ease the frustration of those of 
you out there having the same problem.

Peter Berger
System Administrator
Telerama Public Access Internet



------------------------------

From: jp107@amtp.cam.ac.uk (Jon Peatfield)
Subject: [Xfree, clocksetting]  Diamond PCI card
Date: 25 Mar 1994 17:31:35 GMT

Well it looks like I've messed up.  A couple of weeks ago I ordered a
Pentium PCI machine to run Linux on at home from a company with a
reasonable reutation in the UK (Viglen.)

At the time I believed that it came with a WD PCI graphics card
(WD90c33 based), 'cos several reviews of it said so.  I found out
after I'd sent the money that it will come with a Diamond stealth PCI
card.  I phoned Viglen and checked what options are available and
apart from a Mach-32 card at over UKL450 all their PCI graphics cards
are Diamond S3 ones.

It looks like I'm going to be stuck with this card for at least 'til I
can afford to upgrade it to a decent supported S3 PCI card so does
anyone have any hints about external clock-setting programs which
might be worth trying with it?

Having read the FAQs, HOWTO's etc I'm posting this to a Linux specific
group to avoid the wrath of the Xfree86 development team.

Please don't flame about Diamond, I didn't want their card.

-- Jon Peatfield  (DAMTP Unix network admin)
--
Jon Peatfield, Computer Officer, the DAMTP, University of Cambridge
Telephone: (+44 223) 3-37852     Mail: J.S.Peatfield@amtp.cam.ac.uk

My other tenticle's agree with me.  ;-)

------------------------------

From: u0xh@unb.ca (Chris Newton CSD)
Subject: Re: xtop?
Date: 25 Mar 1994 17:30:17 GMT
Reply-To: u0xh@unb.ca

In article 2murkhINN21kn@rs1.rrz.Uni-Koeln.DE, rest@IKP.Uni-Koeln.DE (Johannes Rest) writes:
>Hello!
>
>is there a version of xtop available for linux?
>
>Please respond
>
>Johannes
>


        Yes, could someone please compile xtop for linux.... I am really interested in this, but dont have the abilities to do it myself...

Thanks,
- Chris

---
| | |\   | |\  University of New Brunswick, Fredericton, Canada
| | | \  | |/  ===========================================================
| | |  \ | |\  I Dont knot speek fer noboeys butt  me, caause I aint gots 
\_/ |   \| |/  no good grammer... :)


------------------------------

From: slater@nrlssc.navy.mil (Rick Slater)
Crossposted-To: news.groups
Subject: Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring
Date: 25 Mar 1994 12:52:16 GMT

Thomas G. McWilliams (tgm@netcom.com) wrote:

: Yes, Ian should have worked within the rules and not used the subterfuge
: of a "straw poll". And Ian's discarding Usenet convention such as the
: overmajority rule is unconscionable. Perhaps we should run our 
: government the same way ... let the New York Times take straw polls and
: change the laws accordingly ...

Mail from Ian's robot will be automatically rejected at this site.  No
big deal ...

                        -- Rick
--
internet: slater@gandalf.nrlssc.navy.mil

------------------------------

From: rest@IKP.Uni-Koeln.DE (Johannes Rest)
Subject: xtop?
Date: 25 Mar 1994 14:14:41 GMT

Hello!

is there a version of xtop available for linux?

Please respond

Johannes


------------------------------

From: jem@snakemail.hut.fi (Johan Myreen)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.admin,alt.uu.comp.os.linx.questions
Subject: Re: Mouse trouble
Date: 23 Mar 1994 18:48:33 GMT

In article <2mpru2$oik@panix.com> odoncaoa@panix.com (Douglas Donahue) writes:

[Why Distribution: usa?  It doesn't seem to work, anyway...]

>however, upon initialization it doesn't seem to be able to find the
>mouse, and dies with an error message to that effect.

What is the exact error message? That might help a bit.

>I re-executed 'setup' this morning, and the second option of the
>'MOUSE CONFIGURATION' option is for a '82C710' (Logitech?) mouse. I had
>selected to configure the Microsoft Bus Mouse (Option 5) when I executed
>the mouse configuration, because I have a Microsoft Bus Mouse! Thus,
>part of the confusion! However, jem@delta.hut.fi stated that this
>message has been taken out for Linux 1.0. Is that to say that a
>probing takes place on the mouse device and the message should be
>made to reflect the fact that a generic mouse device probe is being
>executed in pre-1.0 linux? The probe also takes place in rev 1.0 on the
>configured mouse device? or on an 82C710 device (irregardless)? but
>simply doesn't report as much?

There is no such thing as a "generic mouse device probe." Every device
is probed by its own independent device driver. For a Microsoft
busmouse (InPort) the Microsoft bus mouse option should be chosen, you
can answer 'N' to all the others. The '82C710' mouse driver is for the
PS/2 mouse on the TI Travelmate and Gateway laptops, and has got
nothing to do with bus mice. 

There was no change in the 82C710 driver between 1.0 and version prior
to that, other that that the message was taken out. The reason the
message was taken out was that device probes are usually reported only
if they are successful. Well, at least this is true for the mouse
devices. The reason is to reduce the amount of unneccesary messages
at boot time.

-- 
Johan Myrien
jem@cs.hut.fi
600 11' 55" N, 240 53' 30" E

------------------------------

Subject: Re: NEW PRODUCT : 3 Linux
From: rick.emerson@dscmail.com (Rick Emerson)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 94 00:35:00 -0640

 @SUBJECT:Re: NEW PRODUCT : 3 Linux CD's and a T-Shi                  N
DA> Message-ID: <2mll9r$gla@mack.eng.sc.rolm.com>
DA> Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc
DA> From: dant@minerva.rolm.com (Dan Tran)
DA> Organization: ROLM - A Siemens Company
DA> 
DA> > Can anyone explain how it costs $14.95 to ship 3 cd's?  It's not like t
DA> > is any heavy documentation.  Maybe it's a *really really* thick t-shirt
DA> 
DA> > --bob
DA> 
DA> I agree, the 3 cd + t-shirt + box < 2 pounds.  2-day priority mail costs 
DA> $2.90.
DA> 
DA> -Dan
DA> 

Look, if Jay stands by three CD-ROM's and a tee-shirt for $45
delivered, that's a good deal.  Let's see you buy three audio CD's
(you *know* they've got a killer markup) and a tee for much less.  <s>

Rick
  
...
 * ATP/Linux 1.42 * Oh, pardon me, was that *your* culture? So sorry.


------------------------------

Subject: Re: NEW PRODUCT : 3 Linux
From: rick.emerson@dscmail.com (Rick Emerson)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 94 00:35:00 -0640

EK> Message-ID: <2mncm3INN42l@ope001.iao.ford.com>
EK> Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc
EK> From: ekimmina@pms709.pms.ford.com (Eric Kimminau)
EK> Organization: Paintball Players R Us
EK> 
EK> > 3J> Re : Response in 24 Hrs.
EK> > 3J> 
EK> > 3J> I knew some one is going to post this but, I talked to christina an
EK> > 3J> she got over 1000 E-Mails in 24 Hrs. So you have to wait few more
EK> > 3J> 24 Hrs. :^)
EK> > 
EK> > BZZZT!  If this is how JANA thinks they're going to improve things,
EK> > they have flunked big time.  How hard is it to write a perl script
EK> > that collects messages, ranks them by time received, mails a "you're
EK> > message #xxx, details follow" message, and when the count hits 500,
EK> > sends "so sorry, you're not in the magic 500, you're #xxx".  A little
EK> > forethought and planning is not too much to expect.
EK> 
EK> I saw a post on Friday saying that all orders received through Friday
EK> would be honored at the $29.95 price. Granted, they still need a mail
EK> processor and they don't havce one, but for the price, why complain?
EK> Hell, I hope they don't reply to me for a week, and when they do they
EK> tell me its going to be delayed 2 weeks so they can include XFree 2.1
EK> on the first CD.
EK> 

Well, I stand by my opinion that it's not too hard to implement an
automatic response handler and someone in the business of distributing
Linux software should be able to do the job.  But, having said that,
the pricing is right and if Jana can overcome some past bad press,
they'll have done a fair job of redeeming themselves.  Heck, I'll even
supply the response handler myself if they get this offer out.

Rick
  
...
 * ATP/Linux 1.42 * Dollars cannot buy yesterday.


------------------------------

Subject: Re: NEW PRODUCT : 3 Linux
From: rick.emerson@dscmail.com (Rick Emerson)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 94 09:18:00 -0640

 @SUBJECT:Re: NEW PRODUCT : 3 Linux CD's and a T-Shi                  N
DA> Message-ID: <2mll9r$gla@mack.eng.sc.rolm.com>
DA> Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc
DA> From: dant@minerva.rolm.com (Dan Tran)
DA> Organization: ROLM - A Siemens Company
DA> 
DA> > Can anyone explain how it costs $14.95 to ship 3 cd's?  It's not like t
DA> > is any heavy documentation.  Maybe it's a *really really* thick t-shirt
DA> 
DA> > --bob
DA> 
DA> I agree, the 3 cd + t-shirt + box < 2 pounds.  2-day priority mail costs 
DA> $2.90.
DA> 
DA> -Dan
DA> 

Look, if Jay stands by three CD-ROM's and a tee-shirt for $45
delivered, that's a good deal.  Let's see you buy three audio CD's
(you *know* they've got a killer markup) and a tee for much less.  <s>

Rick
  
...
 * ATP/Linux 1.42 * Oh, pardon me, was that *your* culture? So sorry.


------------------------------

Subject: Re: NEW PRODUCT : 3 Linux
From: rick.emerson@dscmail.com (Rick Emerson)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 94 09:18:00 -0640

EK> Message-ID: <2mncm3INN42l@ope001.iao.ford.com>
EK> Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc
EK> From: ekimmina@pms709.pms.ford.com (Eric Kimminau)
EK> Organization: Paintball Players R Us
EK> 
EK> > 3J> Re : Response in 24 Hrs.
EK> > 3J> 
EK> > 3J> I knew some one is going to post this but, I talked to christina an
EK> > 3J> she got over 1000 E-Mails in 24 Hrs. So you have to wait few more
EK> > 3J> 24 Hrs. :^)
EK> > 
EK> > BZZZT!  If this is how JANA thinks they're going to improve things,
EK> > they have flunked big time.  How hard is it to write a perl script
EK> > that collects messages, ranks them by time received, mails a "you're
EK> > message #xxx, details follow" message, and when the count hits 500,
EK> > sends "so sorry, you're not in the magic 500, you're #xxx".  A little
EK> > forethought and planning is not too much to expect.
EK> 
EK> I saw a post on Friday saying that all orders received through Friday
EK> would be honored at the $29.95 price. Granted, they still need a mail
EK> processor and they don't havce one, but for the price, why complain?
EK> Hell, I hope they don't reply to me for a week, and when they do they
EK> tell me its going to be delayed 2 weeks so they can include XFree 2.1
EK> on the first CD.
EK> 

Well, I stand by my opinion that it's not too hard to implement an
automatic response handler and someone in the business of distributing
Linux software should be able to do the job.  But, having said that,
the pricing is right and if Jana can overcome some past bad press,
they'll have done a fair job of redeeming themselves.  Heck, I'll even
supply the response handler myself if they get this offer out.

Rick
  
...
 * ATP/Linux 1.42 * Dollars cannot buy yesterday.


------------------------------

From: andrei@labomath.univ-orleans.fr (Andrei Yakovlev)
Subject: Speed of Linux vs. that if ISC 3.2 ?
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 1994 13:10:17 GMT

 Hi All,

 I have recently changed to linux against ISC 3.2, and I have had the impression,
that the former is slower. I have erased ISC, so I cannot verify what it seems to
my, but gzip, TeX et.c. are slower now. My configuration includes a standard IDE
VESA non-caching controller, BTW. Does anyone have the exact data on the
question, please? 
  Many thanks,


 Andrew Yakovlev.

------------------------------

Subject: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux
From: rick.emerson@dscmail.com (Rick Emerson)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 94 11:13:00 -0640

 @SUBJECT:STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring              N
JI> Message-ID: <2mnqav$12n@zip.eecs.umich.edu>
JI> Newsgroup: news.groups,comp.os.linux.misc
JI> From: jimj@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Jim Jewett)
JI> Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept.
JI> 
JI> In article <dgardnerCn31vB.3r4@netcom.com>,
JI> Dave Gardner <dgardner@netcom.com> wrote:
JI> >Ian Jackson (iwj@cam-orl.co.uk) wrote:
JI> 
JI> >: : I think that this gives me a fairly clear mandate to go ahead; I'm n
JI> >: : going to apply the overmajority rules that apply to group creation.
JI> 
JI> >Thank ghod the country isn't run by such "clear" mandates (or is it?).  
JI> >cannot understand why Ian figures the results of this straw poll gives h
JI> >the go-ahead to start this thing -- unless that's all he wanted to see i
JI> >the first place, so that's how he interprets the results. 
JI> 
JI> If he had proposed _REMOVING_ the newsgroups with NO replacement,
JI> those votes would have been enough in 2/4 cases.  (In fact, I
JI> don't think I've seen a removal without a replacement at least
JI> planned, but that is about what happened to the skiers who want
JI> to talk about skiing places.)

Interesting you should mention the skiing disaster.  This is another
case where someone charged in and re-arranged the lists; fixing a
problem that didn't exist and, in the process, serving to segregate
three disparate groups (nordic, alpine, and boarders) when greater
cohesion is needed.  All of this re-organization is really going to
useful when the season ends in the northern hemisphere (where most of
the traffic originates) and traffic drops to near-zero levels.

JI> For the other two groups, it was still landslide type results by
JI> the proportion (if considered in the real world) and by the
JI> number (if considered in relation to other usenet straw polls).
JI> 
JI> Now notice that he isn't actually changing the group a whit --
JI> he is just sending out mail.  This is something he could do
JI> even _without_any_support_whatsoever_ and which someone
JI> less responsible is _already_doing_.  (I say less responsible
JI> because the current mailer doesn't answer mailed queries about
JI> _his_ unsolicited email, so it isn't even possible to figure out
JI> what you should do to avoid the mail in the future.)
JI> 
JI> If this really disturbs you, you have several choices:
JI> 
JI> (1) Keep adding to the noise by restating your opposition.
JI> (2) Do something about it.  

And stating my opposition *is* part of "[doing] something about it."
Several posts here make it clear people sat on their hands during the
straw poll and you can expect further statements of opposition.  If
that bothers you, tough.

JI> 
JI> My suggestion would be that you start an RFD for 
JI> comp.os.linux.*.mod, so that people dead set against getting
JI> mail just because they haven't even even read the daily post
JI> can stick to the current group, and people tired of the
JI> noise can move to the new one.  Since Ian's original proposal
JI> was for a moderated group, you could probably convince him
JI> to ignore the unmoderated version once there was a moderated
JI> version out there.

Wait a minute, since when do you or Ian Jackson have even the
slightest claim to define how the lists should be run?  If you want to
say, in effect, the signal to noise ratio here stinks, fine.  Go right
ahead.  If enough people want to do something about the issue, they
will.  But no one person, myself included, has any right to impose
their will on the lists; this is a collective experience.

JI> And yes, there is precedent for moderated/unmoderated pairs,
JI> though they're usually in either sci or soc.(controversial).

That's nice.  This isn't sci.geo.meteo or soc.x.  

JI> I've set Followup-To to poster, because this really isn't 
JI> appropriate for news.groups any longer, and it isn't directly
JI> about linux.  It is a flame war.
JI> 
JI> _________ 
JI>     |     
JI>  jJ |    Take only memories.            jimj@eecs.umich.edu 
JI> \__/     Leave not even footprints.     jewett+@pitt.edu
JI> 

Only if that's what you want to see.

Richard B. Emerson  
...
 * ATP/Linux 1.42 * Survival - the race between education and catastrophe



------------------------------

Subject: c.o.l.x and automatic mod
From: rick.emerson@dscmail.com (Rick Emerson)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 94 14:41:00 -0640

 @SUBJECT:c.o.l.x and automatic moderation                            N
I am opposed to the automatic moderation process currently under
discussion for c.o.l.x groups ; make no mistake about my position.
Having said that, let me attempt to move the argument away from
"drive-by debate" and into something a little more reasoned.

Anyone who has read c.o.l.x for any time can see the signal to noise
ratio is poor.  There's a great deal of traffic, notably in .help and
.misc, exacerbating the usual noise problem inherent in any free,
unmoderated news group.  Furthermore, many of the messages are from
people whose experience with any Un*x-style OS is clearly limited.
Threads such as Linux causing memory to "burn up" (sic) are clearly
absurd and reflect the posters' inexperience.

There are also posters who place utmost importance to a question which
a few minutes' reading in the FAQ's, HOWTO's, or README's would solve.
The result are subject lines that claim the world will end if poster X
doesn't have the answer to a question RIGHT NOW!  And, of course,
some posters repeatedly cross-post in hopes someone, *anyone* will
respond.

An obvious solution, then, is to take positive steps to somehow reduce
the noise level; that is, introduce some form of moderation.  This is,
prima facie, an admirable intent save it ignores the purpose of these
news groups: to facilitate *free* discussion of some common topic
(i.e., help with Linux, system administration issues for Linux,
development issues relating to Linux, and Linux issues not described
before).  Moderation, whether it's the store and forward form most
commonly seen in mail lists or the proposed method of somehow
generating some type of warning message meant to discourage noise
generators, limits free discussion.  That limitation is inherent in
the very definition of "moderation."

There are moderating features already present and commonly accepted on
any news group without adding anything new.  The real problem on
c.o.l.x is the groups are involved in a clash of personalities and, in
the ensuing fracas, losing sight of the existing tools.

The three most obvious tools are 1) respond positively to messages
within accepted norms of conduct (for example, what's acceptable in
alt.flame isn't, I hope, acceptable here), 2) ignore obvious noise (I
am constantly amazed at the cascade of messages complaining about
Ponzi or pyramid schemes, many of which repeat the entire message
verbatim), 3) use e-mail for "that really doesn't belong here"
messages.

The proposed automatic moderation scheme has three major flaws over
and above the basic problem of restricting (through automatic censure)
posting to c.o.l.x: 1) it generates additional mail over and above the
present message load, 2) the (false) assumption is made that mail
delivery is free for all c.o.l.x readers and therefore mailed
admonishments impose little or no added financial burden on the
receiver, and 3) the automatic moderation process is assumed to meet
all readers' needs and priorities.

The argument was made, in effect; the messages are "tiny" and don't
add much.  A note here, a note there, and soon there's a lot of mail
taking up bandwidth.

While, in the "good old days," net access may have been free or a
perquisite, more and more net users have to pay for connect time and,
in some cases, volume.  Unsolicited messages of questionable value are
already an issue; deliberately creating more messages is, to be
charitable, thoughtless.

Several posters have already made the point that their requirements or
expectations from the list cannot be met by any "AI" process.
Furthermore, the groups' definition of "acceptable mail" will be
driven by the person or group operating the moderation system and not
the readership at large.  Those who fail to see the danger in this
situation are invited to review the history of totalitarian systems.

The automatic moderation scheme imposes a distinctly elitist feel to
c.o.l.x; get a message wrong and get a warning from The Moderator.
There are problems with the current state of the groups but they are
created by the readership as a whole and it is the readership's
responsibility to resolve these problems without resorting to
automatic moderation.  Automatic moderation is antithetical to the
spirit of Linux and free software.

Richard B. Emerson   
...
 * ATP/Linux 1.42 * Feather by feather the goose is plucked.


------------------------------

From: joev@otter.WPI.EDU (Joseph W. Vigneau)
Subject: Where is Wine?
Date: 25 Mar 1994 14:11:00 GMT

I know it's in *really* early alpha development, but is the current source
available? I wanna play Solitaire ;)


-- 
joev@wpi.edu, joev@hotblack.schunix.dmc.com     WPI Computer Science     Linux!
    <a href="http://realsoon.wpi.edu:8080/~joev"> Click Here! </a>

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