Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #875
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Sat, 26 Mar 94 11:13:07 EST

Linux-Misc Digest #875, Volume #1                Sat, 26 Mar 94 11:13:07 EST

Contents:
  *** PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE POSTING *** (misc-2.07) (Ian Jackson)
  Still problems with SCSI in 1.0 kernel (Scott Barker)
  Re: Impressions: FreeBSD vs Linux (Michael L. VanLoon)
  Re: MEM vs. CPU power?? (Mike Chapman)
  Re: *Please* comment on Gateway P4D-66  (486/PCI)   [SUCCESS] (Yong Seok Suh)
  Re: Impressions: FreeBSD vs Linux (Rob Newberry)
  Re: *Please* comment on Gateway P4D-66  (486/PCI)   [SUCCESS] (Gisli Ottarsson)
  Re: PCI bus cards (graphics and SCSI) which work? (Ralph Schmidt)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: ijackson@nyx.cs.du.edu (Ian Jackson)
Subject: *** PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE POSTING *** (misc-2.07)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 1994 11:03:00 GMT

Please do not post questions to comp.os.linux.misc - read on for details of
which groups you should read and post to.

Please do not crosspost anything between different groups of the comp.os.linux
hierarchy.  See Matt Welsh's introduction to the hierarchy, posted weekly.

If you have a question about Linux you should get and read the Linux Frequently
Asked Questions with Answers list from sunsite.unc.edu, in /pub/Linux/docs, or
from another Linux FTP site.  It is also posted periodically to c.o.l.announce.

In particular, read the question `You still haven't answered my question!'
The FAQ will refer you to the Linux HOWTOs (more detailed descriptions of
particular topics) found in the HOWTO directory in the same place.

Then you should consider posting to comp.os.linux.help - not
comp.os.linux.misc.

Note that X Windows related questions should go to comp.windows.x.i386unix, and
that non-Linux-specific Unix questions should go to comp.unix.questions.
Please read the FAQs for these groups before posting - look on rtfm.mit.edu in
/pub/usenet/news.answers/Intel-Unix-X-faq and .../unix-faq.

Only if you have a posting that is not more appropriate for one of the other
Linux groups - ie it is not a question, not about the future development of
Linux, not an announcement or bug report and not about system administration -
should you post to comp.os.linux.misc.


Comments on this posting are welcomed - please email me !
--
Ian Jackson  <ijackson@nyx.cs.du.edu>  (urgent email: iwj10@phx.cam.ac.uk)
2 Lexington Close, Cambridge, CB4 3LS, England;  phone: +44 223 64238

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
From: barkers@cuug.ab.ca (Scott Barker)
Subject: Still problems with SCSI in 1.0 kernel
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 07:56:56 GMT

Well, I've been trying for a few months now to figure out and/or get help with
the SCSI problems I'm having. Apparently I'm not the only one with problems,
either. I've got an Adaptec 1542b, attached to which is a Seagate 650 Meg SCSI
hard disk and a Wangtek 5525ES Tape drive. I've got no hardware conflicts. 

I compiled myself a 1.0 kernel with a minimal configuration (I've included a
script of 'make config'). I tried using that kernel to install the latest
Slackware binaries, and it failed. Observing the drive light showed me that it
didn't even look like enough data was being written to the drive during the
install, even after a 'sync'. Also, the partition created with mke2fs was
unmountable by the pl12 kernel. However, before shutting down, everything
looked ok - 'ls -laR' worked just fine. The drive light did not go on, though,
so I figure most of the info was in my RAM (I've got 20Meg).

I tried re-compiling the new kernel with the old scsi code from pl12, and I
achieved a bit more success. The drive seemed more active during the install,
and the partition was mountable by the pl12 kernel. However, there was some
file system corruption - seemingly random parts of the partition would get
corrupted. From install to install, I would get different errors - bad dir
entries, bad blocks, etc.

As near as I can tell, it would seem that the data is not getting written to
the hard drive at all sometimes, and sometimes it's getting written wrong.

So, anybody have any idea where I could start looking for the problem?

Here's a copy of my 'make config' session, so you know what I compiled into
the kernel I was using:

/bin/sh Configure  < config.in
*
* General setup
*
Kernel math emulation (CONFIG_MATH_EMULATION) [n] 
Normal harddisk support (CONFIG_BLK_DEV_HD) [n] 
XT harddisk support (CONFIG_BLK_DEV_XD) [n] 
TCP/IP networking (CONFIG_INET) [n] 
Limit memory to low 16MB (CONFIG_MAX_16M) [n] 
System V IPC (CONFIG_SYSVIPC) [y] 
Use -m486 flag for 486-specific optimizations (CONFIG_M486) [y] 
*
* Program binary formats
*
Elf executables (CONFIG_BINFMT_ELF) [y] 
COFF executables (CONFIG_BINFMT_COFF) [y] 
*
* SCSI support
*
SCSI support? (CONFIG_SCSI) [y] 
        *
        * SCSI support type (disk, tape, CDrom)
        *

Scsi disk support (CONFIG_BLK_DEV_SD) [y] 
Scsi tape support (CONFIG_CHR_DEV_ST) [y] 
Scsi CDROM support (CONFIG_BLK_DEV_SR) [n] 
Scsi generic support (CONFIG_CHR_DEV_SG) [n] 
        *
        * SCSI low-level drivers
        *
Adaptec AHA152X support (CONFIG_SCSI_AHA152X) [n] 
Adaptec AHA1542 support (CONFIG_SCSI_AHA1542) [y] 
Adaptec AHA1740 support (CONFIG_SCSI_AHA1740) [n] 
Future Domain 16xx SCSI support (CONFIG_SCSI_FUTURE_DOMAIN) [n] 
Generic NCR5380 SCSI support (CONFIG_SCSI_GENERIC_NCR5380) [n] 
PAS16 SCSI support (CONFIG_SCSI_PAS16) [n] 
Seagate ST-02 and Future Domain TMC-8xx SCSI support (CONFIG_SCSI_SEAGATE) [n] 
Trantor T128/T128F/T228 SCSI support (CONFIG_SCSI_T128) [n] 
UltraStor SCSI support (CONFIG_SCSI_ULTRASTOR) [n] 
7000FASST SCSI support (CONFIG_SCSI_7000FASST) [n] 
*
* Network device support
*
Network device support? (CONFIG_ETHERCARDS) [n] 
:
: Skipping ethercard configuration options...
:

*
Sony CDU31A CDROM driver support (CONFIG_CDU31A) [n] 
Mitsumi CDROM driver support (CONFIG_MCD) [n] 
Matsushita/Panasonic CDROM driver support (CONFIG_SBPCD) [n] 
*
* Filesystems
*
Standard (minix) fs support (CONFIG_MINIX_FS) [y] 
Extended fs support (CONFIG_EXT_FS) [n] 
Second extended fs support (CONFIG_EXT2_FS) [y] 
xiafs filesystem support (CONFIG_XIA_FS) [n] 
msdos fs support (CONFIG_MSDOS_FS) [y] 
/proc filesystem support (CONFIG_PROC_FS) [y] 
NFS filesystem support (CONFIG_NFS_FS) [n] 
ISO9660 cdrom filesystem support (CONFIG_ISO9660_FS) [n] 
OS/2 HPFS filesystem support (read only) (CONFIG_HPFS_FS) [n] 
System V and Coherent filesystem support (CONFIG_SYSV_FS) [n] 
*
*  character devices
*
Parallel printer support (CONFIG_PRINTER) [n] 
Logitech busmouse support (CONFIG_BUSMOUSE) [n] 
PS/2 mouse (aka "auxiliary device") support (CONFIG_PSMOUSE) [y] 
C&T 82C710 mouse port support (as on TI Travelmate) (CONFIG_82C710_MOUSE) [n] 
Microsoft busmouse support (CONFIG_MS_BUSMOUSE) [n] 
ATIXL busmouse support (CONFIG_ATIXL_BUSMOUSE) [n] 
Selection (cut and paste for virtual consoles) (CONFIG_SELECTION) [n] 
QIC-02 tape support (CONFIG_TAPE_QIC02) [n] 
QIC-117 tape support (CONFIG_FTAPE) [n] 
*
* Sound
*
Sound card support (CONFIG_SOUND) [n] 
*
* Kernel hacking
*
Kernel profiling support (CONFIG_PROFILE) [n] 
Verbose scsi error reporting (kernel size +=12K) (CONFIG_SCSI_CONSTANTS) [y] 



-- 
Scott Barker
barkers@cuug.ab.ca

"Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human.  At best he is
   a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe and not make
   messes in the house."
   - Lazarus Long


--
Scott Barker
barkers@cuug.ab.ca

"Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human.  At best he is
   a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe and not make
   messes in the house."
   - Lazarus Long

------------------------------

From: michaelv@iastate.edu (Michael L. VanLoon)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.386bsd.misc
Subject: Re: Impressions: FreeBSD vs Linux
Date: 24 Mar 94 04:51:10 GMT

In <Cn3uq0.M15@tower.nullnet.fi> elandal@tower.nullnet.fi (Ismo Peltonen) writes:

>In article <2mmlhpINNc3s@bonnie.sax.de>

>       J Wunsch (j@uriah.sax.de) wrote:

>> elandal@tower.nullnet.fi (Ismo Peltonen) writes:

>> Q:
>> >What do people mean with this (`looks and feels like a beta/not finished')?
>> >What in Linux makes that unfinished look'n'feel?

>> A:
>> > (I have hard time trying to keep
>> >up with updates - last time I got route-binary I noticed I'd better
>> >update my libs, which lead to downloading about 7 megs, some installing,
>> >some compiling, and cursing for not to having yet changed my system to
>> >conform to FSSTND)...

>> What you're describing there *is* the ``beta look'n feel''. Inacceptable
>> for a release. Not that FreeBSD doesn't need beta's or development -
>> but people getting a release are not suspected to run into those upgrade-
>> by-the-patch-of-the-day troubles.

>Oh yes, what's that ``one source distribution, juts make world and all
>utilities You've ever wanted are built and installed'' thing? I know
>I've eliminated things from the distribution I grabbed, added new, and
>so on.. I don't want to have everything, and I know I want to have some
>things that should never belong to normal distributions.. So, I rather
>grab packages I want, compile them, install them, and am happy.

You can do this under {Net,Free}BSD just as easily.

>I know I _could_ write a Makefile to /usr/src that built and installed
>everything, but I don't want to. I want to do it to each package at a
>time, hack and slash here and there, and never install everything in one
>session. And most packages can be forgotten, removed, gzipped, or
>otherwise handled after they are installed once.

The point is, you *can't* just type "make; make install" in /usr/src
and come back the next day and have *everything* completely rebuilt
and installed.  I *can*.  And I can be sure it was done correctly and
completely.

Sure, I can cd into /usr/src/usr.sbin/traceroute and type "make; make
install" there, and a few minutes later I have a new traceroute and
nothing more.  The point is, I have a choice.

This is just one of the things he was referring to.  NetBSD just
"feels" to me like a genuine commercial "Unix" product.  It is very
well layed out with much careful thought and foresight.  My friends
linux boxes, while fine, reliable systems, simply didn't feel that way
to me.  They felt to me like something you'd expect to get for free.
Please don't take this as a slam, I'm just trying to give you an idea
of my impressions.


-- 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
 Michael L. VanLoon                 Iowa State University Computation Center
    michaelv@iastate.edu                    Project Vincent Systems Staff
  Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free Un*x for PC/Mac/Amiga/etc.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

------------------------------

From: Mike.Chapman@muc.de (Mike Chapman)
Subject: Re: MEM vs. CPU power??
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 1994 20:42:37 GMT

Robert Feldt (d1coma@dtek.chalmers.se) wrote:
: I'm looking for a PC-system for running Linux and Xfree86, but I don't know 
: on which part of the system to spend the money!

: Should I buy more memory or go for a faster CPU? The choice is between a
: DX-33 system with 16MB of memory and a DX/2-66 with 8MB. I've got a feeling
: the faster system will be the best but I heard X need lots of memory
: (swapping ain't that funny!).

: Both systems come with Cirrus Logic 5428 Graphics Card with 1MB of memory.
: Anyone out there with experience from that one? Should I expand it with one
: more MB of memory?

I'd go for the memory. I have 8Meg and a DX-50. When compiling most
of my C++ stuff I get only about 40% cpu usage. With sather its
even worse, its takes 45min to compile one file in the compiler
using about 15sec cpu. However it all depends what *you* want to do....

: (BTW do you think it is worth approx. $60 USD to get 2 extra years of
: warranty?)

Is the company you buy your system from trustworthy?
Will they still be there in 2 years??

: Grateful for all information and advice.

: Robert Feldt alias d1coma@dtek.chalmers.se
: Student of Computer Science
: CTH Gothenburg Sweden

Just my $0.02, may be yours are different.

-- 
Mike.Chapman@muc.de 
         Asked what he thought of Western civilization,
         Mahatma Gandhi said, "I think it would be an excellent idea".

------------------------------

From: suh@pulsar1.rdrc.rpi.edu (Yong Seok Suh)
Subject: Re: *Please* comment on Gateway P4D-66  (486/PCI)   [SUCCESS]
Date: 26 Mar 1994 06:04:18 GMT

In article <GISLI.94Mar25155156@dalembert.eecs.umich.edu>,
Gisli Ottarsson <gisli@dalembert.eecs.umich.edu> wrote:
>
>
>As the person who started this thread I am very pleased to report
>an almost complete success with this machine.  I am very happy.
>
>** Thanks to everyone behind Linux, FSF, XFree86 and Slackware. **
>
>I installed Slackware 1.2.0.  Since the machine came with a Mitsumi
>CD-ROM I initially tried to use the CD-support version of the
>Slackware bootdisks but I got "error 0x10".  I then switched to the
>bare bootdisk which worked.  Is my CD-ROM misconfigured in some way?
>

 Find the file mcd.h in the directory /usr/src/linux/include/linux
and modify the line

#define MCD_BASE_ADDR 0x300 

to the appropriate address of your machine.
I have a 4DX2-66V and I changed the address to 0x340.

Then recompile kernel and it would work.

Hope this help.
Yong S. Suh

>
>                               Thanks again to everyone
>
>                                               Gisli
>
>--
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Gisli Ottarsson                                           
>Grad Student and a Gentleman                     
>                                                   Delenda est Carthago.      
>University of Michigan                                  
>gisli@umich.edu
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



------------------------------

From: rob-n@clark.net (Rob Newberry)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.386bsd.misc
Subject: Re: Impressions: FreeBSD vs Linux
Date: 26 Mar 1994 15:41:43 GMT

Well, this seems to be the place for this sort of gripe, so I'm
going to post it.

For the last 36 hours, I've been trying desperately to get NetBSD and
FreeBSD working (separately, of course :-).  Now, I am definately NOT
a Unix guru.  But I was able to get a very nice Linux system working
in much less.  In addition, I never had any trouble compiling kernels
or anything -- I was up to 1.0 before I decided to try the *BSD systems.
The main reason for doing this was because Linux's net code doesn't seem
to forward packets between a SLIP internet connection and our LAN very
well.  Alan Cox, one of the main developer's of Linux's net code, told
me I ought to try *BSD and see if it works.

IMHO, *BSD has a LONG way to go before its ready for users like me.  I
guess what they need most is a kind of Slackware install, where someone
can get the system and many utilities installed quickly.  I was
VERY VERY disappointed to find that, even though I downloaded every
distribution file for NetBSD at iastate.edu, I didn't even have a good
way to talk to my modem -- kermit is not there, I can't get tip
to work, and there's just not any instructions anywhere.  Plus, when
there are instructions, they're wrong.  The FAQ for makeing a new
*BSD kernel tells me to switch to a directory that doesn't exists on
my machine, and config a file that isn't there.  Yes, I did manage to
find the right place, and create the GENERICISA file from the 
GENERICAHA, but it wasn't in /sys/i386/conf.  Plus, there's no
description of all that junk in the configuration file -- the FAQ
says, "Perhaps someone should tell us what all these options actually
mean."  I thought that's what the *!@# FAQ was for!

It's not just the FAQ's, either.  The man pages are screwy.  I wanted
to add some users.  In linux, "adduser" does the trick.  So I do a 
"man adduser", and it says that this is a command for adding new users,
and furthermore that it has been around since 3.0BSD.  Great! So I
try "adduser" and whammo! "adduser: Command not found."  Yes, I
did finally find out to use "vipw" (Thanks, O'Reilly), but that's
just plain dumb.

*BSD desperately needs the type of installation packages available for
Linux.  Linux installed on my system, and I added the users I needed,
and they had POP accounts immediately, and I could run "DIP" to set
up our SLIP connections out of the box, and I could compile kernels
right out of the box and install them quickly, and I got tons of
utility programs that I never even used.  In *BSD, none of the things
I was looking for were there -- no virtual consoles, no comm package,
no "adduser", no good mail reader, no "pico", no nothing. *BSD may
have fine networking code, but I won't know about it until they make
it easy enough to use.

Now, I do realize that many of the *BSD people like it fine.  But I
will bet that they have a firmer grasp of Unix sys administration
than I do.  I won't say its a bad system...I don't know.  I will say
that its packaging and installation process for novices like
myself is absolute crap.

So I guess I'll go back to Linux for the rest of the day.  Hopefully,
they'll get better net code working in it before long.  If not, 
maybe someone will make something like "Slackware/*BSD".  And if
not that, well, maybe we'll be able to afford one of the packaged
systems (anybody got recommendations?)

My two pennies.  Not worth much to most of the Unix people out there,
but maybe they'll help discourage another novice from thinking
*BSD will work as easily as Linux.

Rob Newberry
rob-n@clark.net


------------------------------

From: gisli@dalembert.eecs.umich.edu (Gisli Ottarsson)
Subject: Re: *Please* comment on Gateway P4D-66  (486/PCI)   [SUCCESS]
Date: 25 Mar 1994 20:51:55 GMT



As the person who started this thread I am very pleased to report
an almost complete success with this machine.  I am very happy.

** Thanks to everyone behind Linux, FSF, XFree86 and Slackware. **

I installed Slackware 1.2.0.  Since the machine came with a Mitsumi
CD-ROM I initially tried to use the CD-support version of the
Slackware bootdisks but I got "error 0x10".  I then switched to the
bare bootdisk which worked.  Is my CD-ROM misconfigured in some way?

Installation went well except when it came time to write a boot floppy
the setup program bailed out.  I took a chance and installed LILO into
the boot sector and this worked well.  After updating lilo.config I
can now boot either DOS or Linux.

The ATI AX0 card that came with the Gateway seems to work well.  There
are very recent reports that since it is DRAM based it may not be able
to handle 1280x1024 but I have no details.  I am running 1152x910 and
this looks quite nice and is very snappy.  This may be a moot point
since I have heard that Gateway has stopped selling the AX0 card.
This is a shame because I think this is a very nice package and
1280x1024 is probably pushing it in 17" anyway.  My monitor is a
CrystalScan 1776 LE.

I am still having problems interfacing with my CD-ROM in Linux. 
Pointers anyone?  I basically get a device not found error.

The 540Mb hard disk gave me some problems.  I remembered a suggestion
that Linux might not like the autoconfigure option in the CMOS setup
so I simply went in, recorded the specs given by autoconfigure and
defined a user mode with the same numbers.  Linux seemed to like this
and I now have it partitioned with a 100Mb DOS partition, two 200Mb
Linux partitions and a 16Mb swap partition.  I have one strange
problem that I don't understand.  I used fdisk in DOS to create the
DOS partition but when I looked at it with fdisk in Linux I got some
kind of warning that the physical and logical partitions don't agree.
I'm sorry how sketchy this is but I did not record the message and I
don't have the machine here.  After I made the second 200Mb partition
in Linux I got a similar (but not the same) message.  Can someone
suggest something based on this or should I try to elaborate.  I am
absolutely clueless.

This is it so far.  I am very impressed with how well the installation
went and would highly recommend this system.  However, as I stated
above, I suspect that the videocard may no longer be available from
Gateway.

                                Thanks again to everyone

                                                Gisli

--

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gisli Ottarsson                                    
Grad Student and a Gentleman                      
                                                   Delenda est Carthago.      
University of Michigan                                   
gisli@umich.edu

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------

From: laire@davinci.uni-paderborn.de (Ralph Schmidt)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.misc,comp.windows.x.i386unix,comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.386bsd.misc,comp.os.386bsd.questions,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next
Subject: Re: PCI bus cards (graphics and SCSI) which work?
Date: 26 Mar 1994 16:52:38 +0100

josv@inter.NL.net (Jos Vos) writes:


>I'm considering to buy the SPEA/Video-7 Mercury PCI with 2 MB VRAM.
>It can do what you want.  Unfortunately I have (until now) only heard 
>of people using the VLB version of this card, so I'm not sure about
>100 % compatibility between the VLB and PCI versions.

I'm also interested in some NS-PCI-Support information...
i plan to buy a PCI board with build in SCSI(NCR) and i'm
wondering if there's already driver support or something in
the pipeline.

Regards
-- 
Ralph Schmidt                                            laire@uni-paderborn.de
University of Paderborn (Germany)

------------------------------


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