Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #876
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Sat, 26 Mar 94 16:13:09 EST

Linux-Misc Digest #876, Volume #1                Sat, 26 Mar 94 16:13:09 EST

Contents:
  Re: 3-cdrom offer (Bogdan Urma)
  NON-DELIVERY (OP to/from UNIX Mail Gateway \(wja\))
  Re: Pentium Optimized GCC (Byron Faber)
  Re: Pentium Optimized GCC
  Re: Multiport (rocketboard) question (Richard Shetron)
  Re: "Hacker's Paradise?" (was Re: Linux-1.0-inline-asm uploaded) (Byron Faber)
  Re: NEW PRODUCT : 3 Linux (Donald Likes)
  Re: MS Busmouse/Gateway ANSWER! (Johan Myreen)
  Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring (Donald Jeff Dionne)
  PCMCIA modems in laptops [PCMCIA] [MODEMS] [LAPTOP] (David Lesher)
  central login/NIS YP? (Mike Nelson)
  Re: Wine status March 11, 1994 (Marc Fraioli)
  Re: which utility (Ray Rocker)
  Re: Slackware 1.2.0 YES! (Michael John Ellis)
  PCMCIA (Re: Linux on a portable) (H.J. Lu)
  Re: pronunciation of linux (Bill Hay)
  Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring (Warner Losh)
  hardward conflict between PS/2 mouse & keyboard. (astec@acad2.alaska.edu)
  Re: *** DON'T READ THIS BEFORE POSTING *** (Bill Hogan)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: bau1@cornell.edu (Bogdan Urma)
Subject: Re: 3-cdrom offer
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 1994 11:25:04

In article <1994Mar25.220430.25127@osuunx.ucc.okstate.edu> likes@osuunx.ucc.okstate.edu (Donald Likes) writes:
>Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
>Path:
>newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!paladin.american.edu!cons
>tellation!osuunx.ucc.okstate.edu!likes
>From: likes@osuunx.ucc.okstate.edu (Donald Likes)
>Subject: 3-cdrom offer
>Message-ID: <1994Mar25.220430.25127@osuunx.ucc.okstate.edu>
>Organization: Oklahoma State University Computer Center
>Date: Fri, 25 Mar 1994 22:04:30 GMT
>Lines: 8



>Does anybody know if slackware 1.2.0 made it on the offer from
>jana.


  I think people are afraid to ask jana by e-mail, since they'll probably 
get a response with a new order number!

Bogdan

------------------------------

From: gateway@oasis.icl.co.uk (OP to/from UNIX Mail Gateway \(wja\))
Subject: NON-DELIVERY
Date: 26 Mar 1994 12:22:02 -0500
Reply-To: gateway@oasis.icl.co.uk (OP to/from UNIX Mail Gateway \(wja\))

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----

Cannot deliver to 'j.cancela.bra0118.icl.icl.gold_400.gb'
Time has expired (1 retries attempted)

   ----- Unsent message follows -----


------------------------------

From: btf57346@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Byron Faber)
Subject: Re: Pentium Optimized GCC
Date: 26 Mar 1994 17:07:59 GMT

grif@corsa.ucr.edu (Michael Griffith) writes:

>In article <1994Mar25.181332.4419@news.clarkson.edu>,
>Homer the Humble <legauljm@craft.camp.clarkson.edu> wrote:

>>Does anyone know if the current GCC compliler for Linux supports
>>penitum specific optimization (ie, pipelining, branching). I
>>am planning to install Linux on my Gateway soon, and I was just wondering 
>>Thanks for the info in advance.
>>-Jacy Legault (legauljm@craft.camp.clarkson.edu) 

>No, but a version of 2.4.0 is available from: 

>   anonymous@aurora.intel.com:/pub/intel_arch/gnu/compiler/    (143.185.65.2)

>This version of gcc isn't good enough to compile the kernel, but
[stuff rm'ed]

Always remember you can install the gcc 2.4.0 version, and then install
gcc 2.5.8 over it.   You could probably then do 'gcc -V 2.4.0' so that
you could use pentium optimizations.

I think.  ;)

Byron

-- 
`Playing this disk at loud volume may permanently damage your speakers or
other sound components.'                                -LFO
                                b-faber@uiuc.edu

------------------------------

From: jwest@jwest.ecen.okstate.edu ()
Subject: Re: Pentium Optimized GCC
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 1994 15:47:05 GMT

In article <2n0lsm$afu@galaxy.ucr.edu> grif@corsa.ucr.edu (Michael Griffith) writes:
>In article <1994Mar25.181332.4419@news.clarkson.edu>,
>Homer the Humble <legauljm@craft.camp.clarkson.edu> wrote:
>>
>>Does anyone know if the current GCC compliler for Linux supports
>>penitum specific optimization (ie, pipelining, branching). I
>>am planning to install Linux on my Gateway soon, and I was just wondering 
>>Thanks for the info in advance.
>>-Jacy Legault (legauljm@craft.camp.clarkson.edu) 
>
>No, but a version of 2.4.0 is available from: 
>
>   anonymous@aurora.intel.com:/pub/intel_arch/gnu/compiler/    (143.185.65.2)
>
>This version of gcc isn't good enough to compile the kernel, but
>it does work.  It added another fps to some MPEG files we displayed
>with mpeg_play. 
>
>

I have read several places that a side-effect of Pentium optimized 
compilers under DOS/Windows is that they produce code that also runs 
significantly faster on a 486. Does anyone know if this is also true of
the Pentium-optimized GCC? Or did the GCC developers already know better 
than the DOS type compiler-writers how to take advantage of the 486 in
the first place?

(And before anyone flames me for saying that the whole premise is 
ridiculous, it has apparently been flamed to death in other groups 
already so there is no reason to re-start it here.)

Jim

________________
Jim West
Associate Professor
Electrical and Computer Engineering
Oklahoma State University
jwest@master.ceat.okstate.edu


------------------------------

From: multics@hermes.acm.rpi.edu (Richard Shetron)
Subject: Re: Multiport (rocketboard) question
Date: 26 Mar 1994 13:09:10 GMT

In article <764358185snz@dungeon.demon.co.uk>,
\"Thomas Dale <dale@dungeon.com> wrote:
>Wondering if any one has tried the board from Comtrol called the Rocket Board
>on a linux machine yet and if it worked well.

I talked with Comtrol last week.  The rocket board driver interface is
considered confidential at this time so they will not release it and they
currently do not have any drivers for linux.

They may release the Hostess card interface (I'm talking with them).
If some plans come through in the next 3 weeks, I'll probably order one
with the development stuff and stephanie (stephie@hermes.acm.rpi.edu)
and I will work on a driver and release it when done (no promises, just
current intent).

>Also suggestions for multiport boards with 8 ports or more that have FULL modem
>handling abilities.

I have a boca board 2016 16 port board arriving this coming week and should
be able to post results by the first week in April, or earlier.


------------------------------

From: btf57346@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Byron Faber)
Subject: Re: "Hacker's Paradise?" (was Re: Linux-1.0-inline-asm uploaded)
Date: 26 Mar 1994 18:02:28 GMT

lilo@slip-12-5.ots.utexas.edu (lilo) writes:

>On 22 Mar 1994 23:07:44 -0500, Paul Tomblin (ptomblin@gandalf.ca) wrote:

[previous post removed]

>Let's be careful.  This is a very common approach to systems software taken
>by people like, *ahem* IBM.  It tends to result in separate system tracks
>and enhancements not getting merged together as they ought to.

>I'd much rather see the bug fixes die down to virtually nothing on v1.0
>before Linus starts up v1.1--which might be what he has in mind.... 8)

As far as the kernel channel has discussed, I seem to get the impression
that this is what is being done.  There have been a few patches to linux 1.0,
most of them small.  But for the most part, patching 1.0 should be done.

Linus had said several weeks ago that he would try putting in the Cluster 
patches into 1.1.  I haven't heard any word on this though.

As for two lines of development?  No.  That won't happen.  Keeping two 
different versions around and working on both would be difficult to say the
least.  As things are progressing now with IBCS2 and the talk on Libc and
Qmagic executables, I don't see how we'll be able to have an 'old, stable
kernel' at all.

With all the changes going on, and all the massive hacking, I see alot of 
new interesting possibilities.  However, for those paranoid users of Linux
who 'need' stable software, I think they will be left out in the cold.

I think the rule of thumb is.  If you 'NEEEEEDDDD' stable software, buy a
version that doesn't change for decades.  (not to start a flame war).  But
I don't think we can halt/stop linux development to please a few people.

I guess my feeling is that linux has been a 'hackers OS' for a long time, 
and making it something else is a mistake.  I remember when a friend
introduced me to linux years ago when SLS didn't even exist.  :)

So.. maybe I just don't like newbies who ask dumb questions (on c.o.l.help)?

Who knows..
.000000001 peso's worth

Byron

Byron
-- 
`Playing this disk at loud volume may permanently damage your speakers or
other sound components.'                                -LFO
                                b-faber@uiuc.edu

------------------------------

From: likes@osuunx.ucc.okstate.edu (Donald Likes)
Subject: Re: NEW PRODUCT : 3 Linux
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 1994 18:12:05 GMT

>
>hmmm, that's funny because i got some kind of reference number in the mail,
>and when i wrote back to the originator of said message i got another refernce
>number.
>

Well maybe Jana is coming around now!  I asked them a question
and I actually got an answer... no reference number....

Craig.
=======
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   with BSMTP id 7959; Sat, 26 Mar 94 10:25:48 EST
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Date:         Sat, 26 Mar 94 10:25:06 EST
From:         3JJN3@qucdn.queensu.ca
Subject:      Re: 3-cdrom offer
To:           likes@osuunx.ucc.okstate.edu

Yes, Slackware 1.2 made it to the CD.

Jay
=======

------------------------------

From: jem@snakemail.hut.fi (Johan Myreen)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Re: MS Busmouse/Gateway ANSWER!
Date: 26 Mar 1994 18:57:07 GMT

In article <2mv4cu$2gg@foxholly.lm.com> peterb@foxholly.lm.com (Pete Berger) writes:

>If you have a Microsoft Busmouse and a Gateway 2000 computer, compiling 
>the kernel (as of 0.99pl15) with MS Busmouse support does NOT work, 
>regardless of the Interrupt you use.

>The solution:  Compile the kernel WITHOUT MS Busmouse support, and WITH 
>PS/2 mouse support.  Link /dev/mouse to bmousps2.  Congratulations, your 
>MS Busmouse works.

>Before anyone asks me:  No, I don't know why.  But it works.

It works because the Gateway mouse *IS* a PS/2 mouse, *NOT* a bus
mouse.  The kernel must be compiled with PS/2 mouse support. However,
it does not matter whether the kernel is configured for a MS bus mouse
(InPort) or not, the bus mouse driver does not interfere with the PS/2
mouse.

-- 
Johan Myrien
jem@cs.hut.fi
600 11' 55" N, 240 53' 30" E

------------------------------

From: jeff@ee.ryerson.ca (Donald Jeff Dionne)
Crossposted-To: news.groups
Subject: Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring
Date: 26 Mar 1994 19:06:01 GMT

Matt Welsh (mdw@cs.cornell.edu) wrote:
: In article <2mvgf5$1ue3@hermes.acs.ryerson.ca> jeff@ee.ryerson.ca (Donald Jeff Dionne) writes:
: >Forget it. It's a really bad (discouraging
: >and on the whole, self rightous) idea.

: It's anything BUT self-righteous. If it were, people like Ian and myself
: would just let the newsgroups go to Hell in a HandBasket[tm] and not
: care that people weren't getting help. Instead, we're trying to implement
: something that will allow more people to get help from the newsgroups.
: The tradeoff is that it will require users to do a bit more work (including
: a keyword on their subject line; nothing to sweat about) to help the
: system work more smoothly.

: Maybe it's time to ditch the whole plan. USENET apparently isn't ready for
: it. What we can do is set up a moderated mailing list for Linux questions
: and automatically route postings in c.o.l.* that follow the subject-line
: convention to it. Then those people that care enough to answer Linux 
: questions but don't have the time to troll through junk can use this system
: instead. Unfortunately, very few people will then know about the mailing
: list and the subject-line convention, or feel pressured to use it. 

Great!  I'll be the first one to subscribe to the mailing list!  I hope
you understand that I agree, there is a tremendous waste of bandwidth on
repeated questions that are in the FAQ's, but auto-flame-o-matic is NOT
the answer.

Jeff@EE.Ryerson.Ca

------------------------------

From: wb8foz@netcom.com (David Lesher)
Subject: PCMCIA modems in laptops [PCMCIA] [MODEMS] [LAPTOP]
Reply-To: wb8foz@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu (David Lesher)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 1994 18:39:39 GMT

A friend has laptop with a AT&T/NEC PCMCIA Keep In Touch 
V.42 bis modem card.

Are there any issues relating to configuring/using same under Linux?
End apps would be minicom now & slip/ppp eventually.
-- 
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close...........(v)301 56 LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close)....kibo# 777............pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead..............vr....................20915-1433

------------------------------

From: mikenel@netcom.com (Mike Nelson)
Subject: central login/NIS YP?
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 1994 18:40:39 GMT

Hi folks...

I need someway to have logins to one or more linux machines get their 
"passwd" information from a central server... NIS/YP as far as I know 
does this but several questions:

1) Is there a working implementation of NIS/YP for Linux that will be 
both the client and server for NIS? 
2) What utilities (login, passwd, etc...) do I need to make this work?

Any responses should go to mikenel@netcom.com....

Much appreciated... Mike.
-- 

____________________________________________________________________________
Michael Nelson                                            mikenel@netcom.com
MailPro for Windows/Win32 Development                    Rockville, Maryland

------------------------------

From: mjf@clark.net (Marc Fraioli)
Subject: Re: Wine status March 11, 1994
Date: 26 Mar 1994 18:52:14 GMT
Reply-To: mjf@clark.net

In article 94Mar25034109@blodwen.demon.co.uk, jrg@blodwen.demon.co.uk (james r grinter) writes:
>In article <newcombe.22.000D9C0F@aa.csc.peachnet.edu> newcombe@aa.csc.peachnet.edu (Dan Newcombe) writes:
>There is, however, the programs from Astrix (is that right?) that look
>remarkably like Word and Excel. I believe that they're only currently
>available on Suns - but they do look good. Does anyone have any more
>info or experience of them?

The company is called Applix and the product was called Aster*x.  A new version
has been released, and its name is now Applixware.  It's an integrated package
including a Word Processor, Spreadsheet, Mail front end, and Drawing package,
all based on the Motif API.  It is able to link objects from one document into
another.  It's very nice.  I think it costs about $800 for the complete package
of all applications.  It runs for sure on SunOS 4.1.3 and Ultrix 4.x (we have it
in our Lab on both those platforms), and I'm pretty sure there are also native
versions for Alpha OSF/1 (if not, DEC's $150 binary translator will produce a
working Alpha version.  I know, I've done it.), Solaris 2.x, AIX, and SCO.
Perhaps someday the SCO version will run on Linux.

---
Marc Fraioli          |         HAIL ANTS!
mjf@clark.net         | 


------------------------------

From: rocker@rock.b11.ingr.com (Ray Rocker)
Subject: Re: which utility
Date: 25 Mar 1994 21:41:23 GMT

In article <2mfrmv$7ud@paperboy.osf.org>, dswartz@pugsley.osf.org (Dan Swartzendruber) writes:
|> 
|> I'm kind of amazed.  With all of the random, semi-useful BSD
|> programs out there, I was a tad surprised when I typed in
|> 'which crond' and found out Linux doesn't have the which
|> command.  I poked around in the BSD sources and got it working
|> and installed in /usr/local/bin in a few minutes, but it seems
|> to me that a program this useful really should be part of the
|> standard release...  It wasn't in Slackware 1.1.2 anyhow...

bash has a builtin called "type" that works very similarly to which.

"type ls" tells me that I have ls aliased to 'ls -CF'.
"type -path sh" would tell you where sh is in your path.
"type -path -all sh" gives you all the locations of sh in your path.

I suggest reading the man page for bash and aliasing which to whatever
form of "type" you like best. Works for me.

-- ray

------------------------------

From: mikee@gwis.circ.gwu.edu (Michael John Ellis)
Subject: Re: Slackware 1.2.0 YES!
Date: 26 Mar 1994 14:57:11 -0500

sinkkone@serifos.Helsinki.FI (Janne Sinkkonen) wrote:
>In article <2mpk3d$av9@cc.tut.fi>, Tero Paananen <p116711@cc.tut.fi> wrote:
>>Spent the last evening installing Slackware 1.2.0 and I have to say
>>that, if installing Linux was any easier, it would probably be illegal :)
>>Nice job Pat (and all the rest involved).
>
>So did I. Have to say the installation program is very clever and cool!
>So far everything has been working fine.


I have to agree. I ran into ONE problem though....

when it says: "pick a file-system" it explains how both e2fs & xiafs are
pretty much the same and it doesn't really matter which on you pick.

To make a long story short, I pick xiafs & stuff went down-hill from there.

It just doesn't work.

It could have been my system, it was a SMALL ide drive & only 4 megs of mem.
I did have the virtual memory fired up etc.

Basically what it comes down to is that the e2fs file-system works JUST
FINE, while the xiafs TRULY hoses slackware installation at least in my case.

maybe someone can confirm this.

All in all a GREAT installation package.

major kudos to all involved.

        MikeE

-- 
===============================================================================
Michael                           |
Sr. Programmer Analyst            |            ZIMA ZUCKS!
The George Washington University  |

------------------------------

From: hjl@nynexst.com (H.J. Lu)
Subject: PCMCIA (Re: Linux on a portable)
Date: 26 Mar 1994 17:58:25 GMT

In article <1994Mar25.183236.1376@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu>, sid@ldgo.columbia.edu (sidney hellman) writes:
|> In article <2ms1ec$lnf@oak7.doc.ic.ac.uk>, mmh@doc.ic.ac.uk (Mirza Manar Hussain) writes:
|> > 
|> > Has anyone got Linux working on a portable computer?
|> > If so which one etc?
|> > 
|> I purchased an NEC versa E with linux pre-installed.  It is the 50 MHz
|> version with an Active Matrix screen.  Excellent computer, and X is Xcellent.

FYI, we are making progress on the PCMCIA supports. I think Linux will
support Intel and Databook PCMCIA chips in a few weeks. First, we may
be able to use the PCMCIA modems without booting DOS first. I was told
the ethernet card might be installed after Linux was booted.

BTW, I can install Megahertz PCMCIA modem under Linux on my notebook with
Databook chip. I was told it also worked with Intel chip.


H.J.

------------------------------

From: WiSH@dumain.demon.co.uk (Bill Hay)
Subject: Re: pronunciation of linux
Reply-To: WiSH@dumain.demon.co.uk
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 1994 00:34:26 +0000

In article <2mo915$jbv@sbi.sbi.com> bet@std.sbi.com "Bennett Todd" writes:

> All this reminds me of the line ``Whereas Europeans favour call-by-name,
> Niklaus Wirth, Americans tend to favor call-by-value, Nickles Worth''.
> Actually, that isn't quite right. Anybody have the precise line, and better
> still a source for it?
> 
I don't recall the exact line but IIRC correctly that is one of Wirth's own 
lines. 


-- 
Bill Hay

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: news.groups
From: imp@boulder.parcplace.com (Warner Losh)
Subject: Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 1994 19:38:19 GMT

In article <1994Mar26.081802.8665@cc.gatech.edu> byron@cc.gatech.edu
(Byron A Jeff) writes: 
>I still think you'll create a whole lot more bitching than anything else.
>Without nearly 100% compliance it's not going to be real effective.
>
>We've been discussing this in a vacuum. rec.arts.tv.soaps have had keyword
>subjects forever. They're truly excellent and almost 100% compliance.

True.  However, rec.arts.tv.soaps likely isn't growing in new
readership as quickly as col*.  In rec.collecting they tried this for
about 6-9 months with about a 60% hit rate.  They then gave up and
split it into rec.collecting.stamps, et al.

I agree witht he point that I deleted from Byron's message.  If you
want to do this, do a RFD, CV on comp.os.linux.anal-about-posts.

Make sure that there is no misc keyword, as that will be a catch all
to destruction.  If there isn't a keyword for it, then it likely is
not the best place for it.

A challange to Ian:
        Please publish the current working list of keywords so that we
might make intellegent comments on them, rather than flaming each
other based on what each person thinks will or will not be on the
list.

Warner
-- 
Warner Losh             imp@boulder.parcplace.COM       ParcPlace Boulder
"... but I can't promote you to "Prima Donna" unless you demonstrate a few
 more serious personality disorders"

------------------------------

From: astec@acad2.alaska.edu
Subject: hardward conflict between PS/2 mouse & keyboard.
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 1994 14:43:12 GMT

Path: acad2.alaska.edu!astec
From: astec@acad2.alaska.edu
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: PS/2 style mouse conflicts with keyboard.
Message-ID: <1994Mar26.102605.1@acad2.alaska.edu>
Date: 26 Mar 94 10:26:05 AST
Organization: University of Alaska
Lines: 15


I'm experiencing what i believe is a hardware conflict between my PS/2
style mouse and the keyboard  on booting Linux. About 20 percent of the
time i boot the system, the keyboard will lockup at the prompt. I have never
experienced lockups once logged on, only at bootup. My keyboard has a 
hardware interrupt of 1 and the mouse is set to 12. I am running fall
LGX pl 13 on an Ambra EISA DX66. Any advice on how to correct this problem
is greatly appreciated. Reply direct to astec@acad2.alaska.edu


                                        -Thanks

                                        Ted.



------------------------------

From: bhogan@crl.com (Bill Hogan)
Subject: Re: *** DON'T READ THIS BEFORE POSTING ***
Date: 26 Mar 1994 11:25:59 -0800

lilo (lilo@slip-12-5.ots.utexas.edu) wrote:
: On 25 Mar 1994 03:56:30 -0800, Bill Hogan (bhogan@crl.com) wrote:

: >  Some of the commentators who have posted in this thread seem to me to
: > have a definite "we" versus "they" model in mind, as if the "we"'s were
: > loyal, hard-working employees of Linux, Inc., while the "they"'s were lazy,
: > good-for-nothing Linux users interested only in wasting the company's
: > money.

: >  I have a quite different model in mind when I think about c.o.l.h and
: > that is the image of an elementary school in which all the teachers are
: > also students.
: .
: .
: .

: Bill,

: Thank you for your comments!  I've noticed that the time I spend helping
: people with Linux problems is usually repaid--they do often end up becoming
: quite knowledgeable themselves.  No one is making me spend the time....I
: would like to see more people either deciding to do that sort of thing
: more, but I don't think it's a moral imperative.  It might be useful to
: set up a set of moderated linux lists that cover all the topic areas people
: might wish, and go back to an alt.os.linux.whatever track for those of us
: who are more likely to be willing to answer new-user questions....

: lilo

 And I am not embarrassed by the fact that I have not been around the
usenet long enough to feel competent to be telling old-timers how the
furniture should be arranged; but I regard the notion of a "moderated
newsgroup" as an oxymoron and I am unalterably opposed to such things on
an internet that purports to be free, no matter what the rationale. 

 It may seem to some to be a long way from moderated newsgroups to a
Global Neural-Net capable of monitoring every communication that
transpires between any two people anywhere on the planet, but at the rate
the capabilities of the technology we are dealing with are developing, the
distance is in fact not great. 

 Cyberspace has to be as free as the air we breathe, both in the economic
sense and in the political sense, and for exactly the same reasons.

 Cyberspace is personal space; personal space has to be free space.

 It is, in fact, impossible even to conceive of the idea of a human being 
without including among its necessary attributes "violently resists 
invasion of personal space".

 Cyberspace is public space; public space has to be free space.

 It is, in fact, impossible even to conceive of the idea of a human
society without including among its necessary attributes "requires a place
where people can meet freely to exchange ideas and information and to
reach agreement on solutions to their common problems, without fear or
possibility of consequent persecution". 

 Lincoln's famous question applies: Can cyberspace exist half slave and 
half free?

 I know how I would feel if someone I had come to know in cyberspace was
suddenly "disappeared" because of something they had said to me in this
newsgroup or because of something I had said to them in this newsgroup. 

 Jacques Monod once said, "Modesty befits a scientist but not the 
ideas which inhabit him and which he is under an obligation to uphold."

 Well, modesty befits a free people but not the idea of freedom which 
inhabits them and which they are under an obligation to uphold!

 I believe the time to draft a Cyberspace Declaration of Independence, to
be followed by the convening of a Cyberspace Global Congress to draft a
Cyberspace Constitution and Bill of Rights, is now, while it is still
possible, not ten years from now, when the means for making such actions
impossible will be in place. 

 Americans especially, I think, should feel this obligation acutely
because unless we make sure that cyberspace becomes at least as free for
the rest of the people in the world as it is free for us now, you can bet
that it will become at least as unfree for us as it is unfree for most of
the rest of the people in the world now. 

 Bill

  
 
   

 
-- 
  Bill Hogan
{bhogan@crl.com}

------------------------------


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