Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #880
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Sun, 27 Mar 94 10:13:07 EST

Linux-Misc Digest #880, Volume #1                Sun, 27 Mar 94 10:13:07 EST

Contents:
  Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring (Donald Jeff Dionne)
  Re: How to convert a tgz file to zip ? (Darren J Moffat)
  Re: linux and dos6 (Darren J Moffat)
  Change from GMT to BST (Darren J Moffat)
  Linux PLIP (Bernard James Leach)
  Re: NEW PRODUCT : 3 Linux (Alberto S Alonso)
  Re: c.o.l.x and automatic mod (Bill Hogan)
  Re: The Keyword Debate Continues (Rene COUGNENC)
  Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring (Arnt Gulbrandsen)
  Re: Word processor for Linux??? (Mike Jagdis)
  Re: Linux 1.0 comes out on same day Apple announces new machines (Jim Anderson)
  Re: Change from GMT to BST (Martin White)
  Re: How do I remove LILO after ptting DOS back on my machine (Jim Anderson)
  Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring (Dave Wagner)
  Re: PCI bus cards (graphics and SCSI) which work? (Ernst Kloecker)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jeff@ee.ryerson.ca (Donald Jeff Dionne)
Crossposted-To: news.groups
Subject: Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring
Date: 25 Mar 1994 20:10:13 GMT

Matt Welsh (mdw@cs.cornell.edu) wrote:
: In article <rsiCn6yE0.qq@netcom.com> rsi@netcom.com (Rajappa Iyer) writes:
: >Let us just step back a little and look at this problem in
: >perspective. c.o.l.* is just one heirarchy in Usenet. And surprising
: >as it may seem to you, people do read and contribute to more than one
: >group. If I have to remember a different set of rules for posting on
: >c.o.l.* as opposed to, say, alt.california, it is entire conceivable
: >that I might forget the keyword requirement. 

: Perhaps. I don't think that people have problems with multiple 
: "rules". Many specialized groups have their own "rules" of this
: nature; almost all moderated groups do as well.

Yes Matt, but WHO gives Ian and you the right to impose the rules?
Take a look at the number of people who are saying "hold on!  NO WAY".
I personallu don't like the self important, my way or you will hear
from me attitude.

<stuff removed>

: >Thirdly, some people *pay* for incoming mail and I don't think your
: >a clueless newbie should pay for your busy lifestyle.

: Sorry, this sentence didn't parse. :) But I get the idea.
: Theoretically, anyone posting to USENET should expect to get 
: mail for it, in the form of a response. Also, people posting to
: USENET are costing the rest of the world "hundreds, if not thousands"
: of dollars to propagate the article. Why shouldn't we expect them 
: to do something simple like add keywords to the subject line to help
: the whole system run more smoothly.

There's that collective WE attitude again.  In a previous post, someone
from your side of the camp (perhaps it was you) suggested that someone
who did'nt post right not be replied to!  This is totally inapproprate.
As is this whole thing.  These news groups are here to help people, not
turn them of or give them a bad taste for the self important Linux 
establishment.  And to suggest that you can cost people money by sending
mail like that, simply because they posted an article Ian thinks is
not properly filled out on HIS three part form, nonsense.

: So far, I haven't seen any arguments about the proposal that aren't
: either seated in technical considerations or Ian's "right" to do it. 
: I claim that the benefit of the convention far outweighs the technical 
: by-products that can result from improper use. I'm also claiming that
: a "real" CFV would secure Ian's "right" to do this, if you wanted to
: treat this as an actual "moderation" scheme, which it isn't. So, I haven't
: seen any reasons why this convention, if adopted, wouldn't help the 
: newsgroups perform their function more effectively.

All right, here's an argument for why not that has nothing to do with 
"technical considerations or Ian's right".  You *WILL* discourage 
people.  Are you prepared to say "oh, well we did'nt want that guy to
enjoy Linus' contribution to everyone.  He did'nt post like Ian 
deems necessary.  It's DOS for him!"  If you do this that is exactly
what you are doing.  I honestly don't care how nicely you word the damn
thing, it's still rude, and will really make people feel like they 
just want to forget it.

: >Make no mistake about it. What Ian is proposing is a definite change
: >in the way Usenet works. When I make posts to a newsgroup, I do not
: >expect an unsolicited piece of mail because I could not or did not set
: >some of the header fields. 

: In the same way that you "solicit" mail by posting to one of the *.test
: groups, you "solicit" mail by not using proper keywords in your subject
: line. It's only unsolicited if you are either unaware of the mechanism
: or someone implemented it without consulting the overall readership.

Bull.  It's not your place to implement an ignorance is no excuse, you
still get flamed by mail rule.

: BTW, using something "special" like keywords never stopped anyone from
: figuring out how to post to linux-activists. There, the mechanism is
: even more complex: adding an X-Mn-Whatever: line to the header, or to
: the top of the body. It's just a basic requirement for posting to
: that mailing list. And if you screw up, and forget to include the
: proper X-Mn line, you get mail back from the server. 

That's not an excuse, nor is it the same thing at all.  linux-activists are
for just that.  The Linux activists.  Not for the newbie that does'nt know
what /proc/kcore is.  If you want to sit up on your "I've been using UN*X
since before the world was born" chair, then don't respond to the people
with questions.  I think you'd be better off sending help to people then
waisting time arguing about this.  Forget it. It's a really bad (discouraging
and on the whole, self rightous) idea.

Jeff@EE.Ryerson.Ca

------------------------------

From: moffatd@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Darren J Moffat)
Subject: Re: How to convert a tgz file to zip ?
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 1994 12:05:05 GMT

wideberg@obelix.cica.es (Johan Wideberg) writes:

>Hi,

>Sometimes I have the need to convert a tgz (.tar.gz ) to a zip file.
>I would like to do this just using a pipe from the tar program but 
>I have not been able to do this yet. What I have to do this is to 
>extract the file with the command
>gzip -cd foo.tar.gz | tar xvvof -

Why not type: tar -zxvf foo.tar.gz ? (For GNU tar)

>and then compress this using normal zip commands. But it would be
>much more usefull to pipe it from gzip to tar and finally to
>zip. What flags do I have to use?

I've done a bit of experimenting on this one and I'm pretty sure it
can't be done even getting zip to read from stdin doesn't give the
desired effect.

The best soloution I have is this (or something similar):

#!/bin/sh
#
# tar2zip Convert compressed tar to zip file.
#

sp=$PWD
mkdir /tmp/tar2zip$$
cd /tmp/tar2zip$$
tar -zxf $PWD/$1

zipfile=`basename $1 .tgz`.zip

zip -rq $sp/$zipfile *


-- 
Darren J Moffat                        20 Southpark Ave
email: moffatd@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk       Glasgow
       dmoffat@nyx.cs.du.edu           G12 8HZ  Tel: 041-334-5902

------------------------------

From: moffatd@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Darren J Moffat)
Subject: Re: linux and dos6
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 1994 12:08:09 GMT

mjc@coho.halcyon.com (Mark J. Crosland) writes:


>hello,

>I have had linux and dos 5 running for quite some time now,
>i was wondering what dos 6 with disk compression does to
>my currently peaceful co-existence of os's.

Okay but use 6.2 if you can get it !!
>i would imagine that linux can't read/write a dos6 compressed partition,

Correct, but dosemu can !

>but that it can still read uncompressed dos partition ?

No problem.

>probably not a lot of difference between what dos5 vs dos6
>does to partition table ?
You shouldn't be changing any partition table stuff just upgrading
a version of dos.

Just make sure you have a lilo boot disk to hand dos 6{.2} will change the
MBR of the boot HD.

-- 
Darren J Moffat                        20 Southpark Ave
email: moffatd@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk       Glasgow
       dmoffat@nyx.cs.du.edu           G12 8HZ  Tel: 041-334-5902

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: dept.pc
From: moffatd@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Darren J Moffat)
Subject: Change from GMT to BST
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 1994 12:37:53 GMT

I noticed this morining that Linux `date` now reports in BST time rather
than GMT, this is good :-)

I booted MsDog first this morning, and the time was wrong.  However my
BIOS time seems to have changed to the "correct time" (ie BST) after
booting Linux. What will happen when we change back to GMT in the
autumn, and what is the correct way to make sure it happens properly ?



-- 
Darren J Moffat                        20 Southpark Ave
email: moffatd@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk       Glasgow
       dmoffat@nyx.cs.du.edu           G12 8HZ  Tel: 041-334-5902

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development
Subject: Linux PLIP
From: leachbj@latcs1.lat.oz.au (Bernard James Leach)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 1994 13:14:09 GMT

I was looking into PLIP for linux today and was reading the READM1.PLIP
file.  Now according to this Linux PLIP supports two different cables,
one is a 4bit cable the other an 8 bit cable.  Does anyone know anything
further about this.  From memory the 8 bit cable looked compatible with
amiga plip!


--
Bernard Leach - LaTrobe Uni Melb Australia
cscbl@lux.latrobe.edu.au


------------------------------

From: a_alonso@iastate.edu (Alberto S Alonso)
Subject: Re: NEW PRODUCT : 3 Linux
Date: 25 Mar 94 21:27:18 GMT

In <2mv00t$7ga@dr-pepper.East.Sun.COM> bobp@missmarple.east.sun.com writes:


>|>DA> > Can anyone explain how it costs $14.95 to ship 3 cd's?  It's not like t
>|>DA> > is any heavy documentation.  Maybe it's a *really really* thick t-shirt
>|>DA> 
>|>DA> > --bob
>|>DA> 
>|>
>|>Look, if Jay stands by three CD-ROM's and a tee-shirt for $45
>|>delivered, that's a good deal.  Let's see you buy three audio CD's
>|>(you *know* they've got a killer markup) and a tee for much less.  <s>

>What a load of crap.  This completely misses the point.  

>First of all, keep the T-shirt.  What an insulting excuse to jack up the 
>price.

I think I have to give my opinion about this one. I'm getting quite tired of
people using the damn T-shirt as an excuse. I don't know about you but if I am
to buy clothes I would like to see them first. The reason I ordered the
product is the 3 CDs and I would like not to receive the T-shirt if with that
they drop the shiping cost enough. I think that if you can send 3 CDs 2 days
express for $2.90 it is time to consider taking out the T-shirt and don't use
it as an excuse.

Alberto
-- 
Alberto Alonso                   |The power is something no one will ever
user name: a_alonso@iastate.edu  |know what it really is, but still everyone
Electrical Engineering.          |wants to have it. That is the root of the
                                 |human nature. (Anonymous)

------------------------------

From: bhogan@crl.com (Bill Hogan)
Subject: Re: c.o.l.x and automatic mod
Date: 27 Mar 1994 05:21:56 -0800

David Dyer-Bennet (ddb@terrabit.uucp) wrote:
: rick.emerson@dscmail.com (Rick Emerson) writes:

: >I am opposed to the automatic moderation process currently under
: >discussion for c.o.l.x groups ; make no mistake about my position.
: >Having said that, let me attempt to move the argument away from
: >"drive-by debate" and into something a little more reasoned.

: Wow!  A message with *content*!  From somebody I seem to disagree
: with, but that's a minor matter in comparison. ...

 I can think of two things that could greatly reduce the amount of
redundant text that flows through c.o.l.h; neither one would require any
changes in the usenet status quo, but both would require conscious effort. 

 First, do not indulge in off-the-cuff "drive-by" responses; read the
entire text of the article to which you are thinking about responding
and then compose your response. 

 Second, include only as much of the text of the article to which you are
responding in your response as is required to make clear to a reasonably 
astute reader what you are talking about. 

 For example.

 Bill
-- 
  Bill Hogan
{bhogan@crl.com}

------------------------------

From: rene@renux.frmug.fr.net (Rene COUGNENC)
Subject: Re: The Keyword Debate Continues
Date: 25 Mar 1994 00:46:59 GMT
Reply-To: cougnenc@hsc.fr.net (Rene COUGNENC)

Ce brave David Marples ecrit:


> I'm wondering if one of the things that could be done is to start more
> 'local' support groups; e.g. uk.linux.* or even strath.linux.* etc.
> etc.  For many of the questions that crop up regularly (core/mice/cd
> config/installation etc. etc.) which would free up the 'international'
> groups for real new/difficult subjects.  Its then a matter of user

Yes !

This is exactly what we have done in France, the french Usenet newsgroups
hierarchy has the "fr.comp.os.linux" newsgroup.

It has been up for about one year; before that, there was a BBS conference
carried by most French BBS'ses. 

The fr.comp.os.linux group is now mixed whith the BBS conference; and when
someone post in the international groups, it is really because nobody can
answer the question locally. (Or by mistake.. :-))

> I don't know if such a scheme is workable in practice, but it seems to
> me to be a much better option than putting another block in the path
> of newbies, making them conform to some list of keywords, or whatever
> other system you would like to propose.  WE WERE ALL NEWBIES ONCE (I
> stll feel like I am).

Yes, agreed, totally agreed.

--
 linux linux linux linux -[ cougnenc@renux.frmug.fr.net ]- linux linux linux 

------------------------------

From: agulbra@nvg.unit.no (Arnt Gulbrandsen)
Crossposted-To: news.groups
Subject: Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring
Date: 27 Mar 1994 15:59:24 +0200

In article <2mrrjt$5p7@vishnu.jussieu.fr>, Remy CARD <card@masi.ibp.fr> wrote:
>In article <dgardnerCn55Ln.F2J@netcom.com>,
>Dave Gardner <dgardner@netcom.com> wrote:
>       It's also a waste of money for some people.  Remember that some
>people pay for receiving their mails (and it may be very expensive for
>some) and sending unsollicited mail to them is not a good idea IMO.

It's OK for you to make 20,000 others pay to receive your posting,
but not for you to pay for the receipt of the email response?

--Arnt

------------------------------

From: jaggy@purplet.demon.co.uk (Mike Jagdis)
Subject: Re: Word processor for Linux???
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 1994 23:37:00 +0000

* In message <suqsumnr.764516922@reading>, Tony Sumner said:

TS> Word Perfect market a Unix version of their
TS> popular (!) word processor

Not only that but their SCO version runs fine on Linux in both text in X 
modes if you have the iBCS emulator.

                                Mike  
 

------------------------------

From: anderj@mun18.fi.gs.com (Jim Anderson)
Subject: Re: Linux 1.0 comes out on same day Apple announces new machines
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 1994 20:20:43 GMT

>>>>> "M" == Mark A Horton <mahmha@crl.com> writes:
In article <2mscql$t2f@crl2.crl.com> mahmha@crl.com (Mark A. Horton) writes:

M> CHRISTOPHER D DUKES (cddukes@eos.ncsu.edu) wrote: : I'm sure that
M> if Linus was presented a Power Mac and adequate : documentation and
M> absolutely no way to get rid of the machine and : make money that
M> we would see a port :-).  : -- : "Very Pete Townshendish." "Who?"
M> "Exactly."  : cddukes@eos.ncsu.edu cdukes@nyx.cs.du.edu
M> pakrat@vnet.ibm.com

M> Sure... I'll throw in a hundred bucks - if we get a powerpc port
M> then maybe we can make it work on RS/6Ks and I won't have to put up
M> with AIX anymore!  Hurrah!  Of course, we may also have to chain
M> the thing to Linus' ankle so he can't get rid of it!

Count me in for another $100.00

-Jim
--
Jim Anderson
anderj@fi.gs.com
(212) 902-2406

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: dept.pc
From: martin@pandora.demon.co.uk (Martin White)
Subject: Re: Change from GMT to BST
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 1994 13:52:29 GMT

Darren J Moffat (moffatd@dcs.gla.ac.uk) wrote:
: I noticed this morining that Linux `date` now reports in BST time rather
: than GMT, this is good :-)

: I booted MsDog first this morning, and the time was wrong.  However my
: BIOS time seems to have changed to the "correct time" (ie BST) after
: booting Linux. What will happen when we change back to GMT in the
: autumn, and what is the correct way to make sure it happens properly ?

Sounds like your system is set up like mine. In which case the hardware
(CMOS) clock is run in GMT, and Linux adjusts this to local time i.e. BST.
Linux should adjust this back to GMT automatically at the correct time later
this year.

Look at your rc.local, you've probably got a line like

   clock -s -u

in there somewhere. Which means, set the system clock from the cmos, and the
cmos clock is in gmt.

As msdos does no such adjustment (normally), then thats why it reports the
time as being an hour behind. Which I just put up with, as I hardly use DOS
these days.

Martin
-- 
| Martin White   | Internet: martin@pandora.demon.co.uk | Running Linux | 
| Herts, England | Cix     : mwhite                     |      1.0      |

------------------------------

From: anderj@mun18.fi.gs.com (Jim Anderson)
Subject: Re: How do I remove LILO after ptting DOS back on my machine
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 1994 20:26:23 GMT

>>>>> "J" == J S van Oosten <jvoosten@compiler.tdcnet.nl> writes:
In article <1994Mar24.021810.1140@compiler.tdcnet.nl> jvoosten@compiler.tdcnet.nl (J.S. van Oosten) writes:


J> Michael Nelson (nelson@hamlet.uncg.edu) wrote: : I had a friend of
J> mine help me take linux off my machine and he decided : the best
J> way was to just format the drive and fdisk it.....WRONG....Now I :
J> can't boot my machine without a floppy.....is there anyway I can
J> get rid : of LILO with out sacraficing what is on my Hard drive
J> right now????

J> RTFM (or better: RTFF): On MS-DOS do "FDISK /MBR". This quite
J> permamently removes the Lilo booter from your disk.

If, after "FDISK /MBR", you want to again have linux become the
default booted OS (assuming, of course, that it's still on the drive),
how do you reinstate the linux MBR?

-Jim

--
Jim Anderson
anderj@fi.gs.com
(212) 902-2406

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: news.groups
From: davew@cray.com (Dave Wagner)
Subject: Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring
Date: 24 Mar 94 13:50:12 CST

tgm@netcom.com (Thomas G. McWilliams) writes:

>John F. Haugh II (jfh@rpp386) wrote:
>: USENET has a set of rules which predate LINUX and the zillions of people
>: who post to the LINUX groups.  None of the rules mention "straw polls"
>: or provide for the concept of a net.fascist to come along and change the
>: moderation status of newgroups.
>:
>: And good intentions don't count ...
>
>Yes, Ian should have worked within the rules and not used the subterfuge
>of a "straw poll". And Ian's discarding Usenet convention such as the
>overmajority rule is unconscionable. Perhaps we should run our 
>government the same way ... let the New York Times take straw polls and
>change the laws accordingly ...
>
I thought the "straw poll" was simply to see if there was enough
interest to bother with the normal USENET groups voting procedure.
Clearly, if Ian was the only one interested in moderating the groups,
it wouldn't be worth the time/bandwidth to conduct an official vote.

While I don't necessarily agree with the proposal, I would say the
outcome did give some "mandate" to go ahead with an official vote
on the proposal per USENET voting rules.  I don't see anything
wrong with using some kind of informal polling to see if there
is any interest.
--
Dave Wagner                               "My other computer is a T3D."
davew@cray.com , uunet!cray!davew         "Ask me about PWC chapters near
(612) 683-5393                             you (Parents Without Camcorders)"

------------------------------

From: ernst@cs.tu-berlin.de (Ernst Kloecker)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.misc,comp.windows.x.i386unix,comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.386bsd.misc,comp.os.386bsd.questions,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next
Subject: Re: PCI bus cards (graphics and SCSI) which work?
Date: 27 Mar 1994 14:44:32 GMT

laire@davinci.uni-paderborn.de (Ralph Schmidt) writes:

>i plan to buy a PCI board with build in SCSI(NCR) and i'm
>wondering if there's already driver support or something in
>the pipeline.

Talus Corporation has finished a NS/FIP driver for PCI boards with NCR SCSI.
It will be shipping very soon, might even be fee because a third party might
buy it of them and donate the driver to NeXT.
-- 

=============================================================================
Ernst Kloecker      phone: ++49-30-6181635      e-mail: ernst@cs.tu-berlin.de
=============================================================================

------------------------------


** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **

The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:

    Internet: Linux-Misc-Request@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU

You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.misc) via:

    Internet: Linux-Misc@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU

Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
    nic.funet.fi				pub/OS/Linux
    tsx-11.mit.edu				pub/linux
    sunsite.unc.edu				pub/Linux

End of Linux-Misc Digest
******************************
