Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #885
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Mon, 28 Mar 94 03:13:20 EST

Linux-Misc Digest #885, Volume #1                Mon, 28 Mar 94 03:13:20 EST

Contents:
  Re: Linux PLIP (Mr MF Cosham)
  Re: Linux 1.0 comes out on same day Apple announces new mach (Robert Broughton)
  Re: Wine status March 11, 1994 (Benjamin Z. Goldsteen)
  Compatibility Problem with gcc 2.4.5 and C lib 4.4.4? (Sujat Jamil)
  Re: Wine status March 11, 1994 (ivie@cc.usu.edu)
  comp.os.linux.advocacy (Tim Pierce)
  c.o.l.x keywords (Rick Emerson)
  Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring (Carl Schott)
  Re: LINUX AND COHERENT (Rene COUGNENC)
  setting up x11 and xfree (Your Name Here)
  Re: Linux 1.0 comes out on same day Apple announces new mach (Robert Broughton)
  Re: Cheap Linux box (hackrat)
  Re: The Keyword Debate Continues (Pierre Uszynski)
  Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring (Pierre Uszynski)
  Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring (Pierre Uszynski)
  STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring (Theodore Ts'o)
  Re: appointment/telephone directory type progs for linux? (Pierre Uszynski)
  C shell (Nathan Stratton)
  Re: Slackware 1.2.0/Linux 1.0 Problems (Zenon Fortuna)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: mfcos1@mdw081.cc.monash.edu.au (Mr MF Cosham)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development
Subject: Re: Linux PLIP
Date: 28 Mar 1994 00:18:36 GMT

leachbj@latcs1.lat.oz.au (Bernard James Leach) writes:

>I was looking into PLIP for linux today and was reading the READM1.PLIP
>file.  Now according to this Linux PLIP supports two different cables,
>one is a 4bit cable the other an 8 bit cable.  Does anyone know anything
>further about this.  From memory the 8 bit cable looked compatible with
>amiga plip!

The 4 bit cable is for the older parralel ports that are output only.
It uses the status lines to transmit the information.  The 8 bit cable
will work with the newer ports that can send and receive on the data
lines.  I believe it works the same way as Laplink on DOS, and is
probably the same as the amiga cable.

Mark Cosham
mfcos1@ccds.cc.monash.edu.au

>--
>Bernard Leach - LaTrobe Uni Melb Australia
>cscbl@lux.latrobe.edu.au


------------------------------

From: Robert_Broughton@mindlink.bc.ca (Robert Broughton)
Subject: Re: Linux 1.0 comes out on same day Apple announces new mach
Date: 26 Mar 94 07:54:33 GMT

>>>>> "M" == Mark A Horton <mahmha@crl.com> writes:
In article <2mscql$t2f@crl2.crl.com> mahmha@crl.com (Mark A. Horton)
writes:

M> CHRISTOPHER D DUKES (cddukes@eos.ncsu.edu) wrote: : I'm sure that
M> if Linus was presented a Power Mac and adequate : documentation and
M> absolutely no way to get rid of the machine and : make money that
M> we would see a port :-).  : -- : "Very Pete Townshendish." "Who?"
M> "Exactly."  : cddukes@eos.ncsu.edu cdukes@nyx.cs.du.edu
M> pakrat@vnet.ibm.com

M> Sure... I'll throw in a hundred bucks - if we get a powerpc port
M> then maybe we can make it work on RS/6Ks and I won't have to put up
M> with AIX anymore!  Hurrah!  Of course, we may also have to chain
M> the thing to Linus' ankle so he can't get rid of it!


One suggestion, if something like this actually happens: I've read that
there's about 6,500 applications available for AIX. So, if anybody out
there makes Linux run on PowerPC's, do it in such a way that it can execute
AIX binaries.
--
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

Robert Broughton    Robert_Broughton@mindlink.bc.ca

"We calm and reassure. We embrace people with the message that we're
all in it together. That our leaders are infallible and that there is
nothing, absolutely nothing wrong." - Miles Drentell, _thirtysomething_

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.windows.x.i386unix,comp.os.386bsd.apps
From: ben@rex.uokhsc.edu (Benjamin Z. Goldsteen)
Subject: Re: Wine status March 11, 1994
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 02:06:19 GMT
Reply-To: benjamin-goldsteen@uokhsc.edu

kenny@festival.ed.ac.uk (K J MacDonald) writes:

>Daniel Garcia (kender@esu.edu) wrote:
>[Lots of stuff horribly deleted...]
>: Also - non-unix software DOES use motif.  Geo-work's GUI is loosely
>: based on the motif GUI spec - it's a shame that geo-works, which
>: IMHO was MUCH better than ms-windows ever was (or ever will be?) was
>: swamped out by ms-windows.

>       VMS uses MOTIF for X11 apps. And I challenge anyone to call the
>a Unix system :)

Actually, I hear they are working on SPEC1170 validation (or perhaps they
already ahve it).
-- 
Benjamin Z. Goldsteen

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
From: sujat@shasta.ee.umn.edu (Sujat Jamil)
Subject: Compatibility Problem with gcc 2.4.5 and C lib 4.4.4?
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 02:42:23 GMT


Does anyone know if there's a compatibility problem with gcc 2.4.5 for
Linux using C libraries 4.4.4?  By compatibility, I mean compatibility
with the traditional/K&R C, and compatibility with gcc 2.0.  I have a
program that compiles and executes correctly on a Sparcstation 10
using gcc 2.0 under SunOS 4.1.  The same program compiles without a
single complaint (not even a warning!) on a 486 (8MB RAM) with gcc
2.4.5 under Linux .99pl14.  But, the program crashes when I try to run
it.  

I have tried debugging using gdb, and there doesn't seem to be a
logical reason why it should crash!

It crashes in this loop:

        for (i=0; i<= MAX_VAL - 2; i++)
           ht[i].ptr = i + 1;

ht is an array of size MAX_VAL of structures.  The very first
iteration of this loop crashes.  In fact, replacing the for loop by
a single assignment to the ptr field of ht[i] for any value of i
crashes. But gdb does NOT complain when I ask it to display ht[i] for
any value of i.  So, it doesn't appear to be a bug in the memory
allocation (right?).  So, I'm completely bewildered.  What's
especially bothering me is that that why would it run fine when
compiled with 2.0 on the Sun but not with 2.4.5 on the PC? 


Sorry, but it was kind of a problem and a comment so I wasn't quite
sure about which group, c.o.l.misc or c.o.l.help, to post to.  Please feel free
not to cross-post in your reply if you don't want to.  I'll check both
newsgroups.   

Thanks much for reading and responding. :)

Sujat
--
_______________________________________________________________________________
Sujat Jamil                                             Electrical Engineering
Graduate Research Assistant                             University of Minnesota
***********                   sujat@shasta.ee.umn.edu               ***********

------------------------------

From: ivie@cc.usu.edu
Crossposted-To: comp.windows.x.i386unix,comp.os.386bsd.apps
Subject: Re: Wine status March 11, 1994
Date: 27 Mar 94 18:30:58 MDT

In article <Cn87Is.BI5@festival.ed.ac.uk>, kenny@festival.ed.ac.uk (K J MacDonald) writes:
> 
>       VMS uses MOTIF for X11 apps. And I challenge anyone to call the
> a Unix system :)

You obviously haven't been following the "Is VMS Dying" discussion on
comp.os.vms (and other groups too numerous to mention).
-- 
================+======================================================
Roger Ivie      | Don't think of it as a 'new' computer, think of it as
ivie@cc.usu.edu |     'obsolete-ready'

------------------------------

From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Crossposted-To: news.groups
Subject: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Date: 27 Mar 1994 21:41:32 -0500

In article <1994Mar27.185119.27442@cs.cornell.edu>,
Patrick D'Cruze <pdcruze@orac.iinet.com.au> wrote:

>Linux International is an organization that has been formed to promote the
>wide spread adoption of the Linux Operating System amongst computer users
>everywhere.

Now.

*Please*.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                /  Crazy isn't so bad.  I could get
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /  used to this.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /    -- Mary Campbell

------------------------------

Subject: c.o.l.x keywords
From: rick.emerson@dscmail.com (Rick Emerson)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 00:17:00 -0640

I do not oppose the concept of encouraging keywords in subject.  The
examples cited in recent posts suggest one way to reduce the noise
content somewhat.  I'll even go so far as to suggest that keeping a
tally of how often particular keywords are used may help in
re-organizing c.o.l.x (and such a re-organization is inevitable).  

I object to enforcement of a keyword system by a "robot" (sic) or
*any* self-appointed moderator.  As others have pointed out, requiring
new Linux users to learn the code of keywords to avoid getting
admonitions from an auto-moderator is a certain way to discourage
using Linux ("I'd use it but the newsgroups are newbie-hostile").
Learning by example (people get better or quicker replies if they add
keywords) and commentary ("Next time, Lisa, try adding the keyword
'CD-ROM' to your subject for a quicker reply") is far better than
"Dear [your name here], you must use keywords in this group.  FTP the
list of keywords from some.ftp.site.edu.  Automatically yours, Robby
the Robot".

Richard B. Emerson  
...
 * ATP/Linux 1.42 * Wear old clothes when you fight for truth and liberty.


------------------------------

From: cgschott@psu.edu (Carl Schott)
Subject: Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 06:00:39 GMT

David Dyer-Bennet (ddb@terrabit.uucp) wrote:
: cgschott@psu.edu (Carl Schott) writes:

: >Everyone in favor of this seems to be completely overlooking the
: >intangible effects this campaign has had on the groups.  

: I'm not overlooking it.  I simply have a different opinion from you.

: The situation is clearly relatively bad.  The people best able to
: answer questions are always the people with the most other things to
: do with their lives.  They're first out when things get bad.

True, and more of them are leaving because of flamewars over posting 
etiquette than over FAQ posts, IMO.

: While the current argument is not helping any, I blame that on those
: arguing against the proposal.  None of the arguments against that I've
: seen seems to me to have the slightest merit -- until this one of
: yours.

If you're serious about improving signal to noise in the group, you
can't simply dismiss those posts that you don't agree with or that don't
have "merit"--traffic is traffic.  Ask "Why did this person
post this?  How can the groups avoid attracting this kind of traffic?"  
And keep in mind that the groups are unmoderated--there is no way to 
stop any post of any kind, even with the automailer.

: I'm new around here, a month or so, so your statements about Ian's
: history are of some interest to me, and might indirectly indicate
: possible problems coming up.  On the other hand, what Ian has said so
: far doesn't seem to me compatible with what you've said.  One possible
: hypothesis is that some of the earlier events happened as you
: described, and Ian has learned some things since since then.

As I tried to point out in another post, the problem isn't Ian--he's just
been carrying the banner in this crusade for a while.  No matter how
they've been worded, the daily posts have regularly attracted rebuttal
and flames--most recently under the "DON'T READ THIS BEFORE POSTING"
thread.  It doesn't matter how the post is worded--there will always be
someone who finds it offensive, for the simple reason that people generally
don't like to be told what to do.

Now look at the volume of traffic in this thread and the flames
it has drawn.  You seem to see nothing provocative in Ian's writings,
but obviously there are others who see it differently.  If an automailer
is sending out posting instructions to large numbers of newcomers to 
these groups (many of whom are already frustrated), some of them are 
going to flame back.  The flames you see in this thread will become 
commonplace--there's no reason to think that the angry responses here 
won't be shared by others on their first introduction to the automailer.

The flame traffic really turns off people who come here to help others--
it's a waste of time to wade through and depressing to read.
It also tends to feed on itself very quickly, producing large long-lived
threads.  Much worse than the newbie FAQ's it "replaces".

Voluntary subject key words are fine.  Reorganizing/splitting the
newsgroups is better.  The automailer has the potential to be a real
disaster.


Carl Schott

------------------------------

From: rene@renux.frmug.fr.net (Rene COUGNENC)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.coherent
Subject: Re: LINUX AND COHERENT
Date: 27 Mar 1994 15:51:03 GMT
Reply-To: cougnenc@hsc.fr.net (Rene COUGNENC)


Ce brave Bill Hogan ecrit:

> [ Article crossposted from comp.os.coherent ]
> [ Author was david.h.dennis@support.com ]


> The bottom line here should make a few people at MWC laugh.  The result of all
> this is that I am probably going to keep my Coherent system just to hang on to
> the manual.  That way, when I get a manual page like:
>  
>    UNDOCUMENTED(2)                                  UNDOCUMENTED(2)
>    DESCRIPTION.
>         I haven't gotten around to it yet.
>    BUGS
>         These really should be documented.

> I can pick up the Coherent manual and hopefully get an idea of what's up!
> (For those who don't believe that manual page could be real, go to a Linux
> system and type 'man ioctl'.  That's it.  Verbatim!) 

Your Linux man pages are probably not up to date :-))

IOCTL(2)            Linux Programmer's Manual           IOCTL(2)

(The man page is still not complete but exists  now...)

The manual is being written by volonteers, they do a great job but it 
obviously takes time...

> By the way, if any stray Linuxers want to help me with my UUCP, please
> drop me a line.  I am hopelessly confused but a bit intimidated by the
> newsgroup.  You know:  Don't discuss news on here.  Don't discuss UUCP
> on here.  Don't discuss ANYTHING in here until you have read the 3,000 page
> FAQs and manuals!  Conveniently provided in PostScript format for those

Yes, it is a problem. Feel free to post in the Linux groups anyway, and
just don't read the flames you will get. Comp.os.linux.help is for helping
Linux users, and there will always be people answering kindly your questions;
just don't pay attention to the other ones.

But since in this group there are too many off-topic questions, keep in 
mind that:

        In most cases, Linux is just another Un*x system; and there are many
        groups dedicated to particular Unix features on Usenet;

        UUCP is not something specific to Linux, Linux mostly use Taylor-UUCP,
        and setting it is not different under Linux than BSD, or probably
        Coherent. (I use the same settings on my Linux box and Sparc 2...)

        Linux comes whith a very good set of FAQ's, named the "HOWTO's.
        They are in ASCII form, and regularly posted in the newsgroups.
        Reading the UUCP-HOWTO may answer most of your questions...
 
        Linux comes whith full source code, you can't imagine the problems
        you can solve in a few minutes just by reading how some function is
        implemented. Using commercial Unixes whithout source code is now 
        really a pain for me... :-(

But, feel free to ask questions in the Linux help groups. They have been 
created for this purpose; and there are many typical Linux questions you
cant' ask anywhere else. Just use a good threaded newsreader to keep track
of the threads you need to read :-))  (And a kill file for the flamewars..)

> -- 
>   Bill Hogan
> {bhogan@crl.com}

--
 linux linux linux linux -[ cougnenc@renux.frmug.fr.net ]- linux linux linux 

------------------------------

From: bfreeto@interaccess.com (Your Name Here)
Subject: setting up x11 and xfree
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 1994 21:27:41

Hi, 

    I have just installed Linux on my pc and would like to be able to use x11 
and xfree.  Problem is, I can't find anything that tells me how to set things 
up.  When I try to start x, I get "couldn't find config file."  Where is the 
document that tells me what should be in this config file?  Also, is there a 
setup program like you get with MS Windows?  Will I have to do a similar 
procedure with xfree?

Thanx, 

Bill


------------------------------

From: Robert_Broughton@mindlink.bc.ca (Robert Broughton)
Subject: Re: Linux 1.0 comes out on same day Apple announces new mach
Date: 28 Mar 94 06:45:36 GMT

> In article <2n5lvf$t6q@taco.cc.ncsu.edu>, cddukes@eos.ncsu.edu
> (CHRISTOPHER D DUKES) writes:
>
> In article <41541@mindlink.bc.ca>,
> Robert Broughton <Robert_Broughton@mindlink.bc.ca> wrote:
> >
> >
> >One suggestion, if something like this actually happens: I've read that
> >there's about 6,500 applications available for AIX. So, if anybody out
> >there makes Linux run on PowerPC's, do it in such a way that it can
> execute
> >AIX binaries.
>
> A couple of questions.
> 1) What exactly keeps Linux from running on MCA machines?  According
> to a friend of mine the information on MCA is apparently available
> given the right questions.

What's an MCA machine?
>
> 2) Why port to the power mac if a port for RS/6Ks is desired when
> the PPC based RS/6K mod 250 is available (Remember it isn't the
> CPU that is a bitch to port for...  Its everything between the
> CPU and the user, or other CPUs)?

Cost. The cheapest Power PC based RS/6000, last I heard, costs close to
$7,000. The Mac Power PC starts at $2,100.

I'm aware that "everything between the CPU and the user" is an important
issue, and I'm curious as to how big a problem this is with Macs.
>
> 3) Given a port to the PPC, or RS/6K it is realized that the key
> in allowing AIX binaries to run would be to know the binary format
> for AIX?

I thought that this was covered by a standard.

By the way, it's unlikely that I would rush out and buy a Mac or an RS/6000
if Linux were available for it, because I have an investment in Intel/386
software and hardware. It's also unlikely, however, that I'll be using
Intel-based hardware five years from now.

--
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

Robert Broughton    Robert_Broughton@mindlink.bc.ca

"We calm and reassure. We embrace people with the message that we're
all in it together. That our leaders are infallible and that there is
nothing, absolutely nothing wrong." - Miles Drentell, _thirtysomething_

------------------------------

From: mclement@access1.digex.net (hackrat)
Subject: Re: Cheap Linux box
Date: 28 Mar 1994 01:52:11 -0500

byron@cc.gatech.edu (Byron A Jeff) writes:

>IBM486SLC2/66 - $300
>NE2000 Enet   - $ 40
>8 Meg memory  - $300
>Mono VGA      - $115
>VGA card      - $ 45
>---------------------
>Total           $800

There are certainly better systems you can buy for $800, especially consideri
the fact that the original poster did not desire a networked system.  My 
recommendation would be to contact Dee One Systems - they sell quality systems
at LOW LOW prices, and I've had great experiences with them.  Also, I'd avoid
the 486SLC chips like the plague - they're still running on a 16-bit data 
path, and do not support 486 burst mode.  

Dee One is currently selling a 486-40DLC w/mathco, SVGA, 250MB HD, 4MB ram for
$876 -- that would be a MUCH better use of the money.  RAM can always be
upgraded later, using SWAP until one can afford the upgrade.

-- Matt Clement 
   mclement@access.digex.net

------------------------------

From: pierre@shell.portal.com (Pierre Uszynski)
Subject: Re: The Keyword Debate Continues
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 06:59:36 GMT

In <RLJ.94Mar24120917@albion.rx.xerox.com> rlj@albion.rx.xerox.com (Richard L. Jones) writes:

>If it is possible for a particular set of keywords can be agreed on
>- say [INSTALL], [ADVOCACY], [DISTRIB], etc. etc., then surely it would
>be a better idea instead for appropriate newsgroups to be created (.install,
>.advocacy, .distrib, .distrib.slackware, etc.) ?
>
>'Newbies' would know at a glance where to post their enquiries, and there
>would be no need for mailed 'reminders'. 

This was discussed in news.groups during the war on this proposal. The
result is that:

1) It takes a long time to create a new newsgroup. 30 days discussion,
30 days vote. So when the need for a new section arises, it's at least
two months before it would have a forum. In opposition, adding a keyword
is immediate. You don't have to wait for anything, you can start using
it right away (and maybe get one mail each time you start a new thread,
big deal, until the new keyword is globally accepted).

2) A quick look at how many keywords would be useful in col.help shows
over 30 of them. col.help is a logical newsgroup division, but splitting
it in, say, only three next levels, would be difficult, and newsreaders
are not equipped to deal with 30 closely related newsgroups.

3) Newbies would know less to which newsgroup to post. Right now, even
choosing between 4 does not always succeed... using col.help, and then
some approximate keyword would work quite nicely. Using col.help
and no keyword would get you, by return mail, a helpful explanation
on how to use the keywords, and maybe an answer from helpers who would
specialize in helping the Real Newbie With No Keyword :-) Having
to pick among 30 newsgroups would be much more difficult, and would
generate tons of cross-posting (even comp.os.linux is still used,
although it has been mostly abandoned long ago ).

4) The set of keywords can be very wide. That is because ANYTHING is
more informative than half of the current Subjects in col.help. A
keyword can be chosen approximately, and among a big list, by the poster.
It's the helpers who are interested in filtering, and who would
spend the time to build filters (more complex as there are more keywords).
The current impression is to have keywords that are easy to choose,
even if they are a bit more difficult to filter. Most of the headache
actually is on the helpers who will use the filtering scheme, not on
the newbies.

Again, the goal in col.help is to allow more helpers to scan only
the questions that have a chance to be in their field of interest. So
that more newbies and pros alike can get competent answers.

Pierre Uszynski.
pierre@shell.portal.com

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: news.groups
From: pierre@shell.portal.com (Pierre Uszynski)
Subject: Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 07:13:39 GMT

In <DHOLLAND.94Mar25011108@husc7.harvard.edu> dholland@husc7.harvard.edu (David Holland) writes:

>Why not just propose an additional group, comp.os.linux.help.moderated, 
>with either a live moderator (if anybody will volunteer) or even a
>program as described. Anyone who is afraid of the moderator censoring
>their posts can post to the unmoderated group. 

was discussed earlier. That's still an option if this fails. But
would you recommend to any of your friends the moderation of such a
volume of random questions? Not by me, thank you. This moderator would
end up being a program, relying on keywords, or a group of humans
on a less reliable system such as Majordomo group moderation. Lots
of people didn't like the idea of moderation, and it's true that it's
not as reliable as the basic newsgroup. Moderation also delays posts.
The proposed system keeps it as easy and fast as usual for newbies to
ask questions.

>Another thing that might be helpful is a gopher or WWW site containing
>the answers to common questions and solutions to common problems. It's
>much easier to get help from a well-indexed gopher than by posting to
>netnews, or even searching a FAQ.

But "well-indexing" such a database would currently require human
indexing... A daunting task... On the other hand as soon as these
keywords get used, they can be used as the basis for machine
indexing... and voila, you'll get what you want. Somebody already
posted he couldn't wait to try and do that.

Besides, most "common" questions are in the FAQs and such. It's just
that there are a lot of "uncommon" questions one can think of. If you
look at col.help, it's thousands of uncommon questions... Some of
them repeated every few days :-) And it's not because the answer is in
the FAQ that it's easy to find it.

Pierre Uszynski.
pierre@shell.portal.com

------------------------------

From: pierre@shell.portal.com (Pierre Uszynski)
Subject: Re: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 06:37:14 GMT

In <1994Mar24.033845.25496@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> dlj0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DAVID L. JOHNSON) writes:

>I thought this was a bad idea when I first read it, and I still do.  However,
>it seems to ahve changed from what I read -- and voted about.  You were going
>to auto-reject every first post -- however you defined that.  Is that still 
>part of the scheme?

No, it is not. You still remember the original RFD. You even misunderstood
the original RFD. There has never been any "auto-reject the first post".
And you apparently voted without even reading the ballot ;-) 

Once again, everybody together...

"NOBODY IS PUSHING FOR MODERATION OF ANY CURRENT COL GROUP. MONITORING
(NOT MODERATION) IS WHEN A PROGRAM READS THE NEWSGROUP, LIKE YOU DO,
AND EMAILS TO SOME POSTERS."    GET IT?

ahem... sorry... :-)

>Before you go ahead with this you really have to have an official vote, on
>these newsgroups, not just a straw poll on news.groups.  A straw poll is
>just that, a way to see if there is enough support to put a plan together for
>a real vote.  

A straw poll is to get an idea of how much support or opposition a
proposal has. That's exactly what this one achieved. The proposal you
voted on never required a formal vote, even the straw poll was not
required. This proposal is a private initiative that happens to have
a lot of supporters (and quite a bunch of vocal opponents.) As for
holding discussions in news.groups, that's the usual place to have them.
All the proposals and the call for the straw poll were cross-posted to
the col groups, as usual too.

>Before you do this, at least tell us what all we voted for.  

Well, make sure you read the proposal (included in the ballot) next
time you vote,
Pierre Uszynski.
pierre@shell.portal.com

------------------------------

From: tytso@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Theodore Ts'o)
Subject: STRAW POLL RESULT: Linux groups automonitoring
Date: 28 Mar 1994 02:34:05 -0500
Reply-To: tytso@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Theodore Ts'o)

My advice to those who believe the auto-monitoring is a good idea ---
ignore who have been belly-aching, AND JUST IMPLEMENT IT.  Ian, you
should just go ahead and "Just Do It".

These belly-achers have been complaining that no one should have
restrict their right to post to the comp.os.linux.* groups --- well,
similarily, Ian has every right to send whatever email he wants, too.
If he's using a robot program, that doesn't change that.

In fact, there's nothing stopping all of us who are sick and tired of
the junk on these newsgroup to *all* run one of these robots, so that
somone who steps out of line gets hundreds of messages, instead of just
one.  In fact, I will often do this manually, if someone is grossly
abusing the rule.  Given that it is perfectly OK to flame someone via
email for being a bonehead, I see nothing wrong with automating the
process.

                                        - Ted




------------------------------

From: pierre@shell.portal.com (Pierre Uszynski)
Subject: Re: appointment/telephone directory type progs for linux?
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 07:31:28 GMT

In <1994Mar25.124854.25726@dxcern.cern.ch> fanchiot@dxcern.cern.ch (Sergio Fanchiotti) writes:

>[need tk and tcl] I can recommend 
> ical v1.83 As a calendar appointment thing to run under X or as a 
>reminder at login time....

As a graphical calendar and appointement manager,
I also recommend ical under X. It's very close to Sun's openwindows
calendar manager (the best such thing I have seen so far).

Except Sun's cm appointement file is not very readable (ical's is).
And Sun's has a weekly view that shows appointements (ical hasn't yet).
And ical has prettier displays (not difficult :-).

BTW, is SUN's calendar manager available in source form on the net?

I recently looked around using archie, and xkal and ical were the
only decent ones I could find. Xkal is old (1990 <giggle> :-), and
doesn't seem to be maintained, ical is brand new and being improved.

No suggestion for a telephone directory, I use searches in a big
text file :-)

Pierre Uszynski.
pierre@shell.portal.com

------------------------------

From: nstn@netcom.com (Nathan Stratton)
Subject: C shell
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 03:00:31 GMT

Hi,

  I am looking for c shell for Linux I am using bash and lould like to have 
a .login and .cshrc. I am also lookinf for forth for linux something like 
FPC. If you cal help let me know.


P.S. could you reply by mail.


-- 
 +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
 | Nathan Stratton                                                           | 
 +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
 |              Internet:       nstn@netcom.com                              |
 |              Phone:          (703)534-9755                                |
 |              Beeper:         (202)956-0523                                |
 +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
From: zenon@resonex.com (Zenon Fortuna)
Subject: Re: Slackware 1.2.0/Linux 1.0 Problems
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 1994 22:42:27 GMT

In article <2n4nvk$rjm@nkosi.well.com> gonzo@magnet.mednet.net (Patrick J. Volkerding) writes:
> [...]
>Anyway, you clearly didn't do any benchmarking. While it does run 
>significantly slower in color mode (but that hasn't been too slow for 
>me), when you turn off color in /etc/DIR_COLORS (or a copy in 
>$HOME/.dir_colors) it runs about the same speed as a monochrome binary.  
>If you don't want color, I think it's best to create a 
>$HOME/.dir_colors. That way, each user on the machine can 
>decide for themselves.
> [...]
>---
>Patrick Volkerding
>volkerdi@mhd1.moorhead.msus.edu

On a P5-66 with a FAST SCSI HD the color-ls is blazingly fast.
I had no opinion about the color marking at the beginning, but now I like
this feature very much. It is true, that the ls -F also indicates many of
the file types, but it is much easier to notice colors. In a larger directory
I don't have to look closer at the names when I am interested in, say, finding
subdirectories or sym-links.
Because it is easy to switch the color off - as Patrick writes above -
I regard the color-in-ls as a very useful feature.

        zenon@resonex.com

------------------------------


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