Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #206
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Thu, 14 Oct 93 08:13:10 EDT

Linux-Misc Digest #206, Volume #1                Thu, 14 Oct 93 08:13:10 EDT

Contents:
  Re: PC internal modem recommendations? (Drew Eckhardt)
  [Q] Dosemulator in VC? (Jimmy)
  Re: OK, so _where_ are the sources for tin? (Tony Gale)
  Re: Bogomip (H. Peter Anvin N9ITP)
  *** PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE POSTING *** (misc-2.05) (Ian Jackson)
  Re: Pentium, or better: 586 (Han-Wen Nienhuys)
  Re: Questions Flamewar (Ian Jackson)
  Re: Questions Flamewar (Ian Jackson)
  Re: Linux, Xfree with Diamond Viper (Long) (Keith Hollister)
  Ab-initio under Linux; do you think it is feasible? (Frits Daalmans)
  Re: Don't need BogoMips (David E. Fox)
  Re: Why only compressed kernels? (David E. Fox)
  Re: Kernel Panic: swaper problems (HELP) (David E. Fox)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.dcom.modems
From: drew@juliet.cs.colorado.edu (Drew Eckhardt)
Subject: Re: PC internal modem recommendations?
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1993 07:34:24 GMT

In article <29ghnm$he0@marr.ecs.soton.ac.uk>,
Mark Dobie <mrd@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>With internal modems I gather some of them try and emulate a 16550A
>UART.  Do others actually have a real 16550A on the card?

I haven't seen anything with a non-16550A clone that "emulated" 
a 16550. A few (the Supras come to mind) have a propriety 
UART which looks like a 16450 but is buffered (1K in the case
of the Supra).

Some boards use 16550A clones (ie, Startech chips), some boards
use real 16550's.  The chips are pincompatable, and on the samples
I've seen in the V package (chip carrier).

>The linux serial FAQ mentions there can be problems with the emulation
>provided by the Rockwell chipset. 

This has *nothing* to do with the Rockwell chipset which doesn't include
a UART.  It's a function of the modem design.

I have a Zoom 14.4K built arround the Rockwell chipset, it has 
a Startech pin-compatable with the NS16550AFV, the one pictured on 
the box has a real NS16550AFV.

---
Boycott USL/Novell for their absurd anti-BSDI lawsuit. | Drew Eckhardt, 
Condemn Colorado for Amendment Two.                    | Professional Linux 
Use Linux, the fast, flexible, and free 386 unix       | Consultant
Will administer Unix for food                          | drew@cs.Colorado.EDU

------------------------------

From: foo@brutport.bar (Jimmy)
Subject: [Q] Dosemulator in VC?
Date: 13 Oct 1993 22:32:10 -0400
Reply-To: hsied@io.org

I was just wondering if it is possible to run the dos emulator in a virtual
console with X windows running in another VC?  Right now, when I type
CNTR-F2, I can switch to a VC to run the dos emulator, but when I switch
back to X, the screen is in text.  I've read the docs for info for this, but
I'm not too clear on whether or not this should work.

-- 
James Li Ming Hsied    PGP key by request    Internet: hsied@io.org 

------------------------------

From: gale@minotaur.dra.hmg.gb (Tony Gale)
Subject: Re: OK, so _where_ are the sources for tin?
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1993 09:55:28 GMT

Kenneth J. Hoover (ken@PSUEDVAX.PSU.EDU) wrote:

:       I'm trying to get tin running via NNTP on my system.  Of course, it's
: telling me to recompile it with -DNNTP_ABLE, but I can't find the sources
: anywhere!  Can some kind soul please let me know where the sources for tin are
: so I can get moving on this?  Thanks!

:       Please email responses.
:                                               - Ken Hoover
: /signature
: -- 
: Kenneth J. Hoover                 |  A supercomputer is a device that turns
: ITSS Supervisor of Systems & Ops  |  CPU-bound problems into I/O-bound ones.
: Penn State College of Education   |  ken@psuedvax.psu.edu -=*=- kjh6@psu.edu

--
If I remember rightly, there is an executable version compiled with the
NNTP stuff contained in the net-2 binaries on tsx-11.mit.edu.

(I have just gone to check, and you can find it in:
tsx-11.mit.edu: /puib/linux/packages/net/net-2/binaries/net-ext.tar.z)


 ____________________________________________________________________________
|        Tony Gale           |   __/__/__/  __/__/__/  __/__/__/  __/  __/   |
|                            |     __/     __/   __/  __/   __/    __/       |
|  gale@minotaur.dra.hmg.gb  |    __/     __/__/__/  __/   __/    __/        |
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 |  All opinions expressed are my own  |
                  -------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: hpa@ahab.eecs.nwu.edu (H. Peter Anvin N9ITP)
Subject: Re: Bogomip
Reply-To: hpa@nwu.edu (H. Peter Anvin)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1993 10:03:49 GMT

>    |>    >>>>>>486DX-33 -----> 16.5 bogomips
>    |>    >>>>>>486DLC-33 -----> 11.2 bogomips   (Cyrix cross between 386 and 486)
>    |>    >>>>>386DX-25  --> 3.91 BogoMips(tm).
>    |>    >>>>386DX-33/387DX-33 --> 6.03 BogoMips(tm)
>    |>    >>> 486DX66/2 --> 34.06 BogoMips (tm)
>    |>    >>386DX40   ---> 6.99 BogoMips (tm)
>    |>    >486DX50/2  ---> 25.0 BogoMips (tm)
>    |>    486SX25  ---> 12.24 BogoMips (tm)
>    |> 386-20 --> 1.67 BogoMips (tm)
>    386DX40 8Mb --> 7.29 BogoMips
> Sorry, typo, `386-20 --> 1.67 BogoMips (tm)' should be
> 3.67 of course

A few more datapoints:

486DX2/66 16Mb RAM 256K cache   33.4 BogoMips(tm)
486DX/33 16Mb RAM 64K cache     16.1 BogoMips(tm)
386DX/16 w/387 3Mb RAM no cache 0.57 BogoMips(tm) I KID YOU NOT!
-- 
INTERNET: hpa@nwu.edu         FINGER/TALK: hpa@ahab.eecs.nwu.edu
IBM MAIL: I036073 at IBMMAIL  NeXTMAIL:    hpa@speedy.acns.nwu.edu
ANMDRKNING: Heja Sverige friskt humvr!  EG vdntar utanfvr!
while ( 1 ) ; cp /dev/zero /dev/null & end

------------------------------

From: ijackson@nyx.cs.du.edu (Ian Jackson)
Subject: *** PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE POSTING *** (misc-2.05)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1993 10:03:01 GMT

Please do not post questions to comp.os.linux.misc - read on for details of
which groups you should read and post to.

If you have a question about Linux you should get and read the Linux Frequently
Asked Questions with Answers list from sunsite.unc.edu, in /pub/Linux/docs, or
from another Linux FTP site.

In particular, read the question `You still haven't answered my question!'
The FAQ will refer you to the Linux HOWTOs (more detailed descriptions of
particular topics) found in the HOWTO directory in the same place.

Then you should consider posting to comp.os.linux.help - not
comp.os.linux.misc.

Note that X Windows related questions should go to comp.windows.x.i386unix, and
that non-Linux-specific Unix questions should go to comp.unix.questions.
Please read the FAQs for these groups before posting - look on rtfm.mit.edu in
/pub/usenet/news.answers/Intel-Unix-X-faq and .../unix-faq.

Only if you have a posting that is not more appropriate for one of the other
Linux groups - ie it is not a question, not about the future development of
Linux, not an announcement or bug report and not about system administration -
should you post to comp.os.linux.misc.


Comments on this posting are welcomed - please email me !
--
Ian Jackson  <ijackson@nyx.cs.du.edu>  (urgent email: iwj10@phx.cam.ac.uk)
2 Lexington Close, Cambridge, CB4 3LS, England;  phone: +44 223 64238

------------------------------

From: hanwen@blade.stack.urc.tue.nl (Han-Wen Nienhuys)
Subject: Re: Pentium, or better: 586
Date: 14 Oct 1993 10:23:09 GMT

In article <29i6of$5lq@mailgzrz.tu-berlin.de>,
Kai Petzke <wpp@marie.physik.tu-berlin.de> wrote:
>Quite regularly, people ask questions about Linux on 586, or Pentium.
>This is quite natural, the 586 is probably the most powerfull chip,
>on which Linux runs on at the moment (this may change with an
>ALPHA port :-)

or a PowerPC port.

>Even more, we all would like a cheap 586 chip.  Intel has a trademark
>on the name Pentium.  And they have a history of trying to stop
>competitors like AMD by legal issues.  They might forbid others to
>use words like "Pentium-compatible" in their announcements.

So what? If AMD builds a "pentium (tm)-compatible" chip, the word will
spread. I don't think they need to advertise their chips, especially if
they will be cheaper.

>How do you sell a pentium-compatible chip, if you must not call it
>pentium-compatible?

You call it "586" compatible, or you say "our chip is pentium
compatible" in stuff which is not an advertisement

> We can break one of Intel's attempts to monopolize
> the chip market by not using the name Pentium.

We could also break it by not using Pentium at all. I am not impressed
by the pentium speed (considering the amount of money they put in the
project) 

>Gnu and Linux and others try their best to break the monopols of software
>companies.

Intel makes hardware.

greetings,
        /HaWee/

{fido: 2:284/102,email: hanwen@stack.urc.tue.nl}

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development,news.groups
From: iwj10@cus.cam.ac.uk (Ian Jackson)
Subject: Re: Questions Flamewar
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1993 09:46:33 GMT

In article <931013123810@nyx>, Stefan Lukka </dev/null@nyx.cs.du.edu> wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 13 Oct 1993 00:22:50 GMT, iwj10@cus.cam.ac.uk (Ian Jackson) said:
>
>IJ> I stand by my description of Stefan Lukka (the person who posted
>IJ> the FAQ about -m486) as an `idiot with no netiquette' (this was in
>IJ> the Keywords line of my followup).
>
>[...] The person who posted the question, [...], was NOT me.

My apologies, you are correct.  I meant to refer to Savio Lam,
<lam836@cs.cuhk.hk>.


(NB I have posted this to all the groups I posted my original message
to, but please honour the Followup-To this time.  I have answered your
posting more fully in a separate post in col.misc only.)
-- 
Ian Jackson, at home  <ijackson@nyx.cs.du.edu> or <iwj10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
PGP2 public key available on server.  Urgent email: <iwj10@phx.cam.ac.uk>
2 Lexington Close, Cambridge, CB4 3LS, England;  phone: +44 223 64238

------------------------------

From: iwj10@cus.cam.ac.uk (Ian Jackson)
Subject: Re: Questions Flamewar
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1993 10:04:34 GMT

In article <931013123810@nyx>, Stefan Lukka </dev/null@nyx.cs.du.edu> wrote:
>[...]
>I was merely fed up with your loud and noisy hourly automatic posts
>that you fill the linux groups with,

This discussion has been had before.  I didn't just go out and start a
daily posting, I suggested it, and received an overwhelmingly
favourable response.  Despite the existence of people like yourself
the feedback I receive (posted and email) regarding the daily postings
is still overwhelmingly positive, and I shall continue to post them so
long as that is the case.

>[...] there you go again insulting one linux user after another and
>calling them names (idiot, crab, ..etc.).

Here is not the right place to discuss my personal opinions of these
people.  As I said in the posting you were following up (please read
things before replying to them) such discussions should be taken to
email as I do not read any groups which would be appropriate.

BTW I didn't call anyone a `crab' - what an odd insult ?!

> Who do you think you are anyway? I simply could not let that
>pass, and I knew it would increase if I don't put a stop to it, and
>that you would get even worse.

Perhaps email to me would have been better ?  If your message was
intended only for my consumption that would have been a logical route.
I can assure you that your inciting a massive flamewar in
col.development has not made me more likely to do anything you ask.

In article <1993Oct13.144820.18246@osuunx.ucc.okstate.edu>,
<jwest@jwest.ecen.okstate.edu> wrote:
>In article <1993Oct13.002250.22588.chiark.ijackson@nyx.cs.du.edu> iwj10@cus.cam.ac.uk (Ian Jackson) writes:
> [...]
>People, if someone repeatly ignores *polite* reminders to use the proper 
>group (posted or emailed), then a public flame is called for.  [...]

As I said (please read things before replying to them).  My flame was
posted because it was not only directed at the particular posting I
was following up, but rather as an attempt to point out to others who
might be considering asking similar questions on col.development that
this would be a bad idea.

Very few people make the same mistake twice, quite likely because they
get flamed by email the first time.  I just picked on the posts I did
because they were particularly bad examples; their posters were also
unlucky.

-- 
Ian Jackson, at home  <ijackson@nyx.cs.du.edu> or <iwj10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
PGP2 public key available on server.  Urgent email: <iwj10@phx.cam.ac.uk>
2 Lexington Close, Cambridge, CB4 3LS, England;  phone: +44 223 64238

------------------------------

From: keith@ursa.com (Keith Hollister)
Subject: Re: Linux, Xfree with Diamond Viper (Long)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1993 02:49:15 GMT

In article <CEu96M.Cnu@spcuna.spc.edu> mauritz_c@spcuna.spc.edu (Chris  
Mauritz) writes:
> Erik Nygren (nygren@athena.mit.edu) wrote:
> : --
> 
> : I would like to post an unfortunate warning to those considering  
purchasing
> : computers from Zeos or any other company which includes Diamond video  
cards
> : with the intent of Linux or any of the other free versions of UN*X
> : OS's.
> 
> In short, don't do it (buy a Diamond card for use with Xfree).
> 
> : If you want to run X windows with Diamond cards other than the Viper,
> : it is possible using 3rd party hacks.  However, this may be very  
difficult
> : to get working, and the group developing the X-server for all of the  
free
> : x86-based UN*X's does not support Diamond cards because of Diamond's
> : unwillingness to help developers.
> 
> They're happy to help developers IF you pay them for the programming
> information and then sign a non-disclosure agreement.  So then you
> have everything you need to write the driver, BUT you can only release
> a binary.  Releasing source violates the non-disclosure agreement.
> It seems Diamond can not figure out if thy're in the hardware or the
> software business.
> 
> : I bought my Zeos 486/66 a few months ago with the intention of running  
Linux,
> : and I was not pleasantly suprised when I found the problems I had with
> : the Viper (which is not a cheap card).  
> 
> Well, you SHOULD have read the FAQ.  The situation with Diamond cards  
has
> been very widely documented for well over a year.  You could have saved 
> yourself a lot of problems by getting the box with a different brand of
> video card.  I ended up switching vendors (bought a Gateway) since Zeos
> wouldn't let me choose a non-Diamond card (and their machine was alos
> more expensive).
> 
> The bottom line is that if you run DOS+Win, Diamond boards are nice.
> If you run OS/2 or ANY flavor of unix+X you are out of luck.
> 
> Caveat emptor.
> 
> : is growing VERY rapidly.  It would be ashame for Zeos to lose out on  
this
> : rapidly growing market because of policy of a vendor that supplies  
Zeos with
> : components.
> 
> They already have lost out.
> 
> : Another warning:  The Adaptek SCSI Protocol Chip (AIC-6250) that is
> : available in Zeos computers for $45 is not yet supported by Linux.
> : It may be in a few months, but it is not yet.  As a result, there is  
no way
> : to access SCSI hard drives and CDROM drives connected through it.
> 
> If you want to use any type of linux on the machine, it doesn't make
> any sense to scrimp on a SCSI adapter.  For an additional $100-150,
> you can get the Adaptec 1542B/C which is much faster, supported by
> virtually every OS I've run across, and portable (you can pull it out
> and put it in another machine later if you want...not so with the
> "SCSI on a chip").
> 
Actually, I've had much better success (and performance) with the BusLogic  
545 than the Adaptec. Completely Adaptec compatible - Linux and SCO ODT  
both report it as a 1542B. A little cheaper too.

Keith Hollister
keith@ursa.com

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.lang.fortran
From: frits@rulway.LeidenUniv.nl (Frits Daalmans)
Subject: Ab-initio under Linux; do you think it is feasible?
Reply-To: frits@rulglj.LeidenUniv.nl (Frits Daalmans)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 11:26:27 GMT



Greetings all,

I would like to pose the Net a question:  since the advent of the Linux
operating system and its availability of a good C compiler (gcc) and a
good fortran -to-C translator (f2c), and maybe in the near future a
fortran compiler also (g77), many scientific programs that were
originally designed for (large) workstations or mainframes can now be
conveniently ported to a PC architecture (well.. a 386 or better).

My question is: Does anyone have experience with porting a large,
numerically intensive, FORTRAN application to Linux, using the f2c/gcc
tandem or g77? Do you consider it practical (i.e can you USE it) or did
you find it was just "spielerei"? Can you share some of the problems
you had compiling the application? (I can think of problems like having
to link system dependent CPU timing or memory management routines in C
to the package, or problems with compiling COMMON blocks, or problems
with running the HUGE package on Linux which became only apparent after
this large application was built, etc. etc.)

If you think this discussion is valid for these newsgroups, mail your
responses to me and I'll summarize to the net in a couple of weeks.  I
stand open for all suggestions as to crossposting, RTFM (;-)), RTFF
(Read the f...... FAQ), reading past discussion on this or any other
group or mailing list, stop spilling bandwidth (;-)) etc. etc. ;
however I will only spend some of my spare time on it.

Thanks in advance for the responses,

Frits Daalmans
OIO Conformational Analysis
Gorlaeus Laboratoria
Leiden, The Netherlands
E-mail: frits@rulglj.leidenuniv.nl
Tel: [+31] (0)71-274505

Disclaimer: Any opinions expressed in this article are my own, and not 
necessarily my employers'. In fact, I did not mean to explicitly state 
my opinions because this article is meant to pose a *question* to you.


------------------------------

From: root@Belvedere%hip-hop.suvl.ca.us (David E. Fox)
Subject: Re: Don't need BogoMips
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 00:03:12 GMT

Marko Klein (klein@informatik.uni-rostock.de) wrote:
: I have installed SLS 1.03 now and found the kernel computing BogoMips.
: I was not so happy about seeing that a benchmark is calculatet every time
: I boot linux because it's a waste of time (not too much but time is money).

I would advise leaving it in because I'm under the impression that
the linux kernel needs this loop to execute for calibration purposes.


: --
: Email: klein@informatik.uni-rostock.de
: Paper mail: Marko Klein, Eutiner Str. 15, D-18109 Rostock
: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
: "I never saw no military solution that did'nt always end up as something worse"
:                                     Sting in "If I ever lose my faith in you"
-- 
David Fox                       root@Belvedere%hip-hop.suvl.ca.us
5479 Castle Manor Drive
San Jose, CA 95129              Thanks for letting me change
408/253-7992                    magnetic patterns on your hard disk.

------------------------------

From: root@Belvedere%hip-hop.suvl.ca.us (David E. Fox)
Subject: Re: Why only compressed kernels?
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 00:10:27 GMT

W. Alan Krueger (krueger@centi.cs.umn.edu) wrote:

: I was under the impression that the 640k limit was a "feature" of MeSsy-DOS.
  Is there a similar limit on a Unix kernel?

Well, this is not a real limit on a unix kernel per se, but the problem
here is not a limitation of the 386 and protected mode (the mode Linux
runs in) but it is a limitation because the BIOS is in the wrong
place to begin with.  It sits right in the middle of the address space
(or close to the beginning, depending on how much RAM you got).

Since the BIOS is ROM, and more generally, since the base memory on
PC clones is set up to be 640K / 384K "reserved" (including BIOS) this
places a limitation on the Linux kernel itself, but doesn't place a
limitation otherwise.

: -- 
:    William Alan Krueger   | krueger@cs.umn.edu, krue0052@gold.tc.umn.edu
:      Graduate Student     | "I've never been the kind / To close an open mind"
:   Computer Science Dept.  |       - "Free Time," Michael Penn
:  University of Minnesota  | "Hellllllooooooooooooooo, Nurse!" - Warner Bros.
-- 
David Fox                       root@Belvedere%hip-hop.suvl.ca.us
5479 Castle Manor Drive
San Jose, CA 95129              Thanks for letting me change
408/253-7992                    magnetic patterns on your hard disk.

------------------------------

From: root@Belvedere%hip-hop.suvl.ca.us (David E. Fox)
Subject: Re: Kernel Panic: swaper problems (HELP)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 00:12:59 GMT

Yosry Morsi (morsi@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de) wrote:

: Hello people,
:  
: I have run into a the same kernel panic for quite a while now, and I am
: getting very frustrated.
:  
: I am using SLS 1.03 on a 386DX-33 with 8 Mb RAM.
: The kernel tells me the following:

It would help some if you describe what you are doing when the
kernel panics.

For the record, I get kernel panics with the SLS 1.03 kernel when
I try to mount a disk and the drive happens to be empty.


: --
:  Dipl. Inf. (FH) Yosry Morsi                    Lehrstuhl fuer Informatik I
:  morsi@informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de              Universitaet Wuerzburg
:  Tel. 0931 / 888-5056                           Am Hubland
:  Fax. 0931 / 888-4600                           97074 Wuerzburg
-- 
David Fox                       root@Belvedere%hip-hop.suvl.ca.us
5479 Castle Manor Drive
San Jose, CA 95129              Thanks for letting me change
408/253-7992                    magnetic patterns on your hard disk.

------------------------------


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